As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

[icehorse]

Sharia is not to be followed if it is against Quran and Sunnah, Sunnah is the act which is commanded in Quran and done by Muhammad to demonstrate it in action.
Regards

As I understand it, most Muslims agree that the Quran leaves out many details that are explained in the other Islamic scripture, all of which has been approved by Muslim scholars to be in keeping with the Quran. So I would say that by definition, Sharia cannot go against the Quran.

 

[Muffled]

I'd like to gain a basic understanding of Islam. I'm not thinking of signing up anytime soon, but it's worth understanding. I've been at it for a couple of years now and I've found it to be hard to pin down. I'm often told that I'm "misinterpreting" parts, or that I lack historical perspective or this or that...

So here are some ideas I found in the Quran, and my guess is that I'll be told I should ignore them, that they are not part of the "true Islam", even though we see many Muslims in the world pursuing these ideas:

- 1:7 - Allah is forever angry with Christians and Jews
- 2:106 - Some verses can be abrogated (replaced), by later verses.
- 2:178 - Slavery is ok.
- 2:193 - Fight non-believers until there are no non-believers.
- 2:216 - Participate in violent Jihad even if you don't want to.
- 2:223 - Have sex with your wife whenever YOU want to.
- 3:118 - 3:120 - Non-believers are not to be trusted - in many ways
- 3:157 - Dying as a martyr is a great idea.
- 4:89 - Kill apostates
- 5:45 - Eye for an eye, life for a life
- 5:57 - Don't criticize religion
- 6:60 - You can be guilty of thought crimes
- 7:166 - Think of Jews as monkeys
- 8:73 - Create a caliphate
- 9:1 - Break treaties with non-believers
- 9:29 - Fight and subdue non-believers, have them pay the jizyah
- 13:41 - Keep taking the lands of the non-believers
- 23: 6 - Wives and slaves are possessions
- 24:8 - Ways for wives to avoid stoning
- 24:60 - Old women shouldn't expect to get married
- 25:53 - Fresh water and salt water don't mix
- 29:28 - Sodomy is the worst sin
- 31:6 - Music and singing are discouraged
- 47:35 - Don't ask for peace if you have the upper hand
- 57:10 - Conquerers get the best reward
- 68:9 - Non-believers will hope for compromise - don't compromise with them
- 86:13 - Laws are in the Quran

For most of these verses that I mentioned, there are many similar verses to support them, so it's not just about misunderstanding single verses, these messages are "oft repeated".

If I were to think that Muslims believed in the messages in the Quran, this list would be quite alarming. But we're told over and over that Islam is a religion of peace.

Perhaps you see my dilemma here... What do Muslims value and believe?

note: sorry, got the first reference wrong, updated 1:1 to be 1:7

I believe there is nothing in Sura 1 that is against Christians or Jews and I believe quite the opposite could be construed.

 

[Muffled]

It is likely that he meant this, which is actually 1:7

al-Fatihah 1:7

I believe to say those under wrath are Christians or Jews requires one to make assumptions that are not present in the text. It is also an attempt to put words in the mouth of God that He is not speaking.

 

[Muffled]

You have to change it to the Musin Khan translation.

The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

This disagrees with every other translation, however. Do we have an Arabic speaker?

I believe we can include Muslims in the category of those who go astray and incur the wrath of God. It is a generality after all. Not all Jews Muslims or Christians fit the passage but most likely some do. Terrorist IMO are apt to incur the wrath of God for shedding innocent blood.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe we can include Muslims in the category of those who go astray and incur the wrath of God. It is a generality after all. Not all Jews Muslims or Christians fit the passage but most likely some do. Terrorist IMO are apt to incur the wrath of God for shedding innocent blood.

Good post .. yes, humans are capable of good and evil.
Those who judge by other than what God has revealed are in danger of going astray .. this does not mean that believers can't go astray, because of course, they can

 

[icehorse]

I believe to say those under wrath are Christians or Jews requires one to make assumptions that are not present in the text. It is also an attempt to put words in the mouth of God that He is not speaking.

To varying degrees, I've studied three translations. The one I read from cover to cover is the one that has been reprinted 260 million times. I picked that one specifically because it's so widely available around the world. So you can argue that these two Islamic scholars did a bad job of translation, but 10's of millions, perhaps 100's of millions of Muslims would disagree with you. From my perspective, I'm most interested in how Islam is understood today, in 2016. If hundreds of millions of Muslims use this translation then - in practice - we must consider that it's important, regardless of whether we individually agree with the translation.

 

[paarsurrey]

As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

Please don't ignore any parts of Quran, it is all important for one's moral and spiritual progress.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

Please don't ignore any parts of Quran, it is all important for one's moral and spiritual progress.
Regards

If I used the entire Quran for my moral compass, I'd be in jail within the week!

(BTW, the same would be true if I used the entire Bible.)

 

[paarsurrey]

If I used the entire Quran for my moral compass, I'd be in jail within the week!
(BTW, the same would be true if I used the entire Bible.)

Just a wrong understanding.Right?
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Hi paarsurrey -

If I were to follow either the Bible or the Quran literally, I could do illegal things, correct?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey -
If I were to follow either the Bible or the Quran literally, I could do illegal things, correct?

One should follow Quran in letter and spirit after understanding a verse in its context,there will be no problem.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Hi paarsurrey,

We've come to this point in the past I believe. You say "context" and I say that if the book is as Muslims claim, "perfect and timeless", then no context is necessary. As long as your argument is that you want to have it both ways, i.e. it's both timeless AND it needs context, your argument seems weak.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey,
We've come to this point in the past I believe. You say "context" and I say that if the book is as Muslims claim, "perfect and timeless", then no context is necessary. As long as your argument is that you want to have it both ways, i.e. it's both timeless AND it needs context, your argument seems weak.

I don't talk of the context outside the scripture, the context of the surrounding verses,chapters and inside the book itself.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Hey paarsurrey -

That's interesting! I think that gets us a little closer together, but I still think that we will sometimes disagree about which sections are meant to relate to each other, and when a new idea starts. I would also guess that sometimes we'd agree how different sections would relate to each other, but sometimes we'd disagree. For example, it seems important to me that the book criticizes non-believers over 500 times, but to you, Muslims won't think badly of non-believers because of a few positive verses.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hey paarsurrey -
That's interesting! I think that gets us a little closer together, but I still think that we will sometimes disagree about which sections are meant to relate to each other, and when a new idea starts. I would also guess that sometimes we'd agree how different sections would relate to each other, but sometimes we'd disagree. For example, it seems important to me that the book criticizes non-believers over 500 times, but to you, Muslims won't think badly of non-believers because of a few positive verses.

Quran mentions the non-believers of Mecca (the Meccans) who had declared themselves open enemies of Muhammad/Muslims by their words and deeds, non-believers in general are not addressed, the context would make it clear, similarly, the peoples of book (Jews and Christians) of Muhammad's time not in general.

The context illustrates.

Regards

 

[muhammad_isa]

Hi paarsurrey,
We've come to this point in the past I believe. You say "context" and I say that if the book is as Muslims claim, "perfect and timeless", then no context is necessary...

Mankind are social creatures .. we aren't supposed to pick up a book and see the word "kill" then go on the rampage .. are you insane?

I think that that is the main problem today .. too many people are actually becoming crazy .. it's the world ..

It's not just about Muslims killing non-Muslims or vice-versa .. Muslims are killing each other.
I suppose you will claim that the Qur'an teaches them to do that, as well?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hey paarsurrey -
That's interesting! I think that gets us a little closer together, but I still think that we will sometimes disagree about which sections are meant to relate to each other, and when a new idea starts. I would also guess that sometimes we'd agree how different sections would relate to each other, but sometimes we'd disagree. For example, it seems important to me that the book criticizes non-believers over 500 times, but to you, Muslims won't think badly of non-believers because of a few positive verses.

Quran is not a voluminous Recitation, it is concise and touches every topic needed by humans for their ethical, moral and spiritual needs. This is its unique feature, if one ponders intently over its verses, one would see that every section is deeply interconnected. Like one sees different object in the nature/universe sun, moon, earth and other planets etc, separate heavenly objects, yet interconnected with one another and effecting human life in many ways.
Regards

 

[icehorse]

Quran mentions the non-believers of Mecca (the Meccans) who had declared themselves open enemies of Muhammad/Muslims by their words and deeds, non-believers in general are not addressed, the context would make it clear, similarly, the peoples of book (Jews and Christians) of Muhammad's time not in general.

The context illustrates.

Regards

I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that the only non-believers the Quran mentions were from Mecca? If that's what you're saying, I think that very few Muslims would agree with you, and as a reader of the Quran, I don't agree with you. Can you clarify?

 

[icehorse]

Mankind are social creatures .. we aren't supposed to pick up a book and see the word "kill" then go on the rampage .. are you insane?

I think that that is the main problem today .. too many people are actually becoming crazy .. it's the world ..

It's not just about Muslims killing non-Muslims or vice-versa .. Muslims are killing each other.
I suppose you will claim that the Qur'an teaches them to do that, as well?

For 99.999999% of the world's books, I'd agree with you. But Muslims consistently declare that the Quran is different. They declare the Quran to be from Allah, perfect, unalterable, and timeless. If you want to relax those claims concerning the Quran, then I'd say that your post makes sense. But if the Quran is as Muslims say it is, then Muslims have to understand the sometimes violent implications of those claims.

Again, it seems like you want to eat your cake and have it to.

 

[icehorse]

Quran is not a voluminous Recitation, it is concise and touches every topic needed by humans for their ethical, moral and spiritual needs. This is its unique feature, if one ponders intently over its verses, one would see that every section is deeply interconnected. Like one sees different object in the nature/universe sun, moon, earth and other planets etc, separate heavenly objects, yet interconnected with one another and effecting human life in many ways.
Regards

And yet my experience is that when I raise a concern about a passage, Muslims tell me that "that passage doesn't apply to those situations". So again, it seems you're trying to have it both ways.