Ask About Islam

[Link]

You are just confirming my argument. Only a Muslim makes that claim. It is simple confirmation bias.

Sure, but a lot of non-Muslims come to Islam and came to Islam due to it. It's hard to see Quran for what it is and not be Muslim.

 

[Sheldon]

But we as laymen, who are we to judge. We did not create God's laws, He did.

There is no objective evidence for this, and there are literally limitless opinions on which deity is real, and what version of what deity is real, and beyond that limitless opinions on what their own version of their won deity wants. This aside no one has the right to inflict their religious beliefs on others, and laws should reflect the general well being, and treat all humans the same.

We got so used to thinking how we want things that many never have taken the time out to find out the true way. Many take things for granted and if they don't like the consequences, they deem it harsh or strict. But in fact, the Bible states many worse things. Like women are not allowed to speak in church or they are not supposed to show their hair etc. these things are all mentioned in the Bible but because of what the preachers are preaching, you don't hear the full story only what they want you to believe.

I am an atheist, and find much of the bible and koran barbaric and cruel. I'm not interested in what anyone thinks a deity wants, if they want to live their lives in the hope of pleasing a deity they imagine is real and cares, then fine, as long as they don't force others to adhere to those beliefs, and they harm others in the practice of those beliefs, but I have no intention of living my life like that, as is my right.

Some say you have to just believe, but that is contrary what Jesus says in the Bible. I studied the Bible and what is inside is in contradiction to what they preach it to be.

So you think slavery is ok then, as described in Exodus 21?

What about eating shellfish, wearing more than one type of fabric, or growing different crops in adjacent fields, how about stoning unruly children to death?

Trying to enforce morality derived from the archaic texts of bronze and iron age superstitions, simply isn't going to work in the 22nd century. People should have the right, and be free to choose how what they do and do not believe.

 

[KWED]

not true. I have been criticized, insulted, blamed, and some just tell me my religion is f'd up.

You can't get salty every time someone disagrees with your claims. You need to respond with an argument of your own. Crying that it isn't fair is not a legitimate response.

People who want to know Islam, they can ask me. But people want to debate me and tell me I'm wrong.

If you say something about Islam that is inaccurate or misleading or unacceptable, people have the right to challenge you on that.
Do you really think that yours is the only opinion on Islam that can be heard?

I opened this thread with sincerity to inform people about Islam, but ya get the athiests, the hard-nosed know-it-alls, the ones that over generalize, the ones that demand that I'm out to lie about my own religion. Those make this thread ridiculous.

But you are misinforming much of the time, and others have the right to know that.

You debate when I want to inform.

I am correcting your misinformation.

You criticize when I know my religion better than you.

That is debatable.
Remember that you denied that Islam allows men to use female captives for sex, and called me a liar. When I provided detailed references from the Quran and sunnah, you failed to respond.

You insult the religion due to lack of understanding.

If you think that presenting factual and rational arguments is "insult" than may I recommend a thicker skin. Stop trying so hard to be offended.

People generalize when they "think" they know more about my religion than I do and they aren't even Muslim. So I guess I'm supposed to let people talk smack to me and I cannot defend myself or my religion? What is this?

This is a debate forum. You make claims. Others respond. You respond in return. And so on. Everyone is allowed to make whatever arguments they want. This isn't an mimbar for you to preach Islamic propaganda.

It's hatred from all sides.

Wonder how long it would be before you tried playing the "hate" card.
Important not: criticising an ideology is not "hate". Presenting responses to your claims is not "hate".
You need to get out of this victim mentality. It really doesn't look good.

As I say, "Knowledge is ignorance to the ignorance and ignorance is ignorance to the Knowledgeable.

And I'm sure it seemed very clever when you typed it.

 

[Sheldon]

I believe that God is the Supreme Being. In Islam, He is the creator of all things. In Islam, Allah says that we are here to worship Him alone, to not create or attribute partners unto Him. He is the ONE and ONLY.

It is crucial because in Islam, Allah is ONE. He says for us to believe in one Him and there are many verses over and over in the Quran that He is claiming that He is One God and those who do not accept this will be punished. There is and always have been one creator of all. To attribute partners unto God is the one thing in Islam that will never be forgiven. To say he is the trinity is polytheism and that goes against the teaching of Islam.

You are free to believe whatever you like, but I don't share your beliefs, and have the right to live my life accordingly.

 

[KWED]

Words and words again, accusations and accusations again.

No, I asked you a couple of straightforward question, which you have avoided (as usual).
Let's try again...
Do you think women should be able to lead men in prayer or go out with their hair exposed?

You tangle my words when I bring forth proof from the Bible, you turn them around and mock my intellect. I am not the hateful one. Why do you hate so much?

I have no idea what you are on about here.

 

[Sheldon]

I did not contradict. Nor does our Creator contradict. I did not say that he is all Love. I said He is merciful but if someone is claiming gods unto Him, the only one worthy of worship, there are other sides. Anyone can see that there are consequences to their actions, even children. Why do you have exams in school? Are you not tested? People put themselves too high on the pedestal and take their Creator for granted, but He knows the outcome of everything and one should never underestimate God.

I think you mean something different to me when you say merciful. I also see no evidence there are any consequences to my atheism, and I don't believe I will survive my own physical death in any meaningful way.

Mercy
noun

1. compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

 

[Sheldon]

It's hard to see Quran for what it is and not be Muslim.

No it isn't, at all, you're simply assuming what you choose to see is correct, and others are wrong. If the Koran were so compelling an example of the perfect word of an inerrant deity, then I am left wondering why so many Muslims worldwide expend so much energy, either angrily threatening or violently suppressing anyone who dares voice any criticisms of it.

 

[MyM]

I think you mean something different to me when you say merciful. I also see no evidence there are any consequences to my atheism, and I don't believe I will survive my own physical death in any meaningful way.

Mercy
noun

1. compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

That is your prerogative

In Islam, one of Allah's names is ArRaheem. In the opening chapters of every sura except one, we start off with "In the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful. In Islam, we address our creator with the most beautiful of names. It isn't upon me to decide your fate, that's not me to say where you will end up. You have your choice and I have mine. In Islam, we are all accountable for our own actions.

 

[KWED]

First of all, Islam was completed over 1400 years ago. It is not to change, it will never change

Just a minute! Earlier you defended Muhammad's example by saying "things were different then". That implies Islam has changed to accommodate a changing world. You certainly rejected the concept of using female captives for sex - but then, that was because you were unaware of it. You went very quiet after finding out. Do you now believe that using female captives for sex is acceptable, now you know Allah and Muhammad permit and condone it?

and God is the proof it cannot be changed.

That doesn't mean anything.

You may say separate prayer rooms for men and women is ridiculous, but again, you don't understand why and you just assume with your lack of knowledge you ignorance correct.

OK. Why can't women pray in the same room as men?

Your ignorance in Islam is typical. It takes just a little respect to try and understand why there are prayer rooms, wash rooms and ablution rooms. Yet you mock at what you don't understand.

Weren't you just complaining about people not debating with resect and humility?

[quoteAs for transexuals, in Islam, God created men and women. He didn't create transexuals. Men did that all on their own. [/quote] If someone is born with gender dysphoria, that must be Allah's doing.

There are prayer rooms for men, there are prayer rooms for women.

Yes, but why?

 

[Link]

No it isn't, at all, you're simply assuming what you choose to see is correct, and others are wrong. If the Koran were so compelling an example of the perfect word of an inerrant deity, then I am left wondering why so many Muslims worldwide expend so much energy, either angrily threatening or violently suppressing anyone who dares voice any criticisms of it.

I'm not assuming, I was non-Muslim at a point myself.
Also I have threads about Quran and trying to show a little bit of what I perceive of it's high eloquence.

 

[KWED]

In Islam, one of Allah's names is ArRaheem. In the opening chapters of every sura except one, we start off with "In the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful. In Islam, we address our creator with the most beautiful of names.

You keep repeating this claim that Allah is most merciful.
People have explained how the evidence shows that he cannot be most merciful, or even a bit merciful.
You ignore these argument and just keep repeating the original refuted claim.

Do you really think this is "informing" people about Islam?

You have your choice and I have mine. In Islam, we are all accountable for our own actions.

And yet Allah also says that he leads people astray so that none can guide him, sets a seal on some people's hearts so they cannot believe, and that he created many of mankind for hell.
How are those people "responsible for their own actions"? (Another issue you keep avoiding)

It has become clear that your idea of "informing" people about Islam is to just repeat dogmatic platitudes and then refuse to discuss it further. That may work amongst other Muslims, who are discouraged from asking any difficult questions, but it won't work on an open debate forum where rational and independent thinkers want reasonable answers and explanations, not mere platitudes.

 

[stevecanuck]

That is your prerogative

... God, the Beneficient, the Merciful.

Qur'an 4:56 - "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.".

Or, maybe not.

 

[MyM]

Qur'an 4:56 - "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.".

Or, maybe not.

When you take verses out of the Quran and try to use them at your advantage, things can backfire. Know that.

For those who disbelieve...in Islam, the believers and disbelievers will be tested on this earth and even on the Day of Judgement. In Islam, you have a brain that has been given to you and Allah created mankind in the best of forms. (surat teen) So, in saying this, Allah knows already who will believe or not but he has given free will to mankind. In Islam, God is the one that is in control over all. Yes, he made hellfire and he made Paradise.

Take for example a killer, a murderer, a rapist, or an abuser. These are horrible people, but if they turn to God in repentance and believe in the Oneness of Allah and his messages, Allah is able to forgive. But in Islam, there is one sin that He will never forgive and that is associating partners unto Him. In saying that, He is able to make hellfire for those he wants. Who are we to question Allah as to why. He has his wrath as well as he has His Mercy. I never said he has to be all God's love like in Christianity claims. In Islam, we believe Allah can do as He wills and wishes and we are not to question why.

 

[KWED]

Take for example a killer, a murderer, a rapist, or an abuser. These are horrible people, but if they turn to God in repentance and believe in the Oneness of Allah and his messages, Allah is able to forgive.

So if a murdering rapist is not caught, and they later sincerely convert to Islam, they get away scot-free. How is that just?

But in Islam, there is one sin that He will never forgive and that is associating partners unto Him.

So if someone is a polytheist but later converts to Islam, they are still going to hell. So many of Muhammad's companions are in hell. Even Muhammad himself? Yikes!

In saying that, He is able to make hellfire for those he wants.

So he can even send good Muslims to hell if he feels like it. It's just a lottery. Crikey!

Who are we to question Allah as to why.

People with free will and independent thought?

In Islam...we are not to question why.

I thought you said "In Islam, you have a brain".
Hmm...

 

[muhammad_isa]

I thought you said "In Islam, you have a brain".
Hmm...

Yes .. and we can use it in a good way, or bad.

It is alright to ponder on why G-d does this or that..
..but if we set out to try and show how illogical G-d is, what do you expect to find?

A G-d fearing person will not do that.

 

[KWED]

Yes .. and we can use it in a good way, or bad.
It is alright to ponder on why G-d does this or that..

@MyM said "In Islam...we are not to question why."
That is not "using your brain". It is the opposite.

..but if we set out to try and show how illogical G-d is, what do you expect to find?

No. We look at what god says and does, and it seems illogical.
It is you who starts with the position that god cannot be illogical or make mistakes, so if anything that seems illogical or wrong, it is you who is wrong, not god. That is not the way to find out about anything.

A G-d fearing person will not do that.

A god-fearing person will not question god or look at his words and deeds with an open mind.

 

[Link]

KWED both biases can go one way or another.

First rule of doubt, know when to stop doubting.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It is you who starts with the position that god cannot be illogical or make mistakes..

That is true.
I don't believe that G-d is of evil intent.
I believe that G-d is full of Mercy and forgiveness.

..so if anything that seems illogical or wrong, it is you who is wrong..

I also believe in devils. I believe that their intentions are to mislead, and am not so quick to assume the Qur'an is wrong.

Over 45 years, and counting..

 

[Link]

I also believe in devils. I believe that their intentions are to mislead, and am not so quick to assume the Qur'an is wrong.

Over 45 years, and counting..

For some reason, sorcerers and devils believe I need to be "put in my place". And so they have made my life horrible including madness I probably will never heal from.

Anyways, You might be interested in this: My 3 days with Mohammad (s) as my guide and the prayer he taught me. | Religious Forums

 

[KWED]

That is true.
I don't believe that G-d is of evil intent.
I believe that G-d is full of Mercy and forgiveness.

Exactly. So you simply reject any data that contradicts this.
You: God is full of mercy and forgiveness.
The Quran: God is not merciful or forgiving to the majority of people.
You: God is full of mercy and forgiveness!

I also believe in devils. I believe that their intentions are to mislead,

Why did Allah create devils with the intention to mislead people from Islam? That makes no sense if Allah created mankind only to worship him (apart from the ones he created for hell, of course).
But of course, because you start with the assumption that everything Allah does makes sense, you simply assume that it makes sense despite being unable to come up with a rational explanation as to why.

and am not so quick to assume the Qur'an is wrong.

You refuse to admit that it even could be wrong. You reject even the possibility. Not a rational or reasonable position at all.

Over 45 years, and counting..

Good for you!
However, being wrong for a long time doesn't make you right. It just makes you more reluctant to accept you might be wrong.