Ask About Islam

[KWED]

I feel that if people were to just get off their high horse and stop trying to play God maybe, just maybe they will be able to see what is really out there. They underestimate God in many many ways and then they end up blaming God for their own mistakes.

One should never say what God is doing or done unless He God himself has said it and done it. Simple : )

How is asking for evidence for extraordinary claims, or dismissing unreasonable assertions "trying to play god"? How can one "try to play god" when there are no gods?

It's easier to place the blame and point the finger than to admit one can be wrong themselves...

 

[KWED]

Mercy is defined in Islam.

 

[MyM]

You titled this thread "Ask About Islam". You claimed that you would answer questions, but all you seem to be able to do is regurgitate dogmatic platitudes and then give up when people press for actual answers.
Very poor, but not entirely surprising.

not true. I have been criticized, insulted, blamed, and some just tell me my religion is f'd up. But that isn't surprising.

People who want to know Islam, they can ask me. But people want to debate me and tell me I'm wrong. I opened this thread with sincerity to inform people about Islam, but ya get the athiests, the hard-nosed know-it-alls, the ones that over generalize, the ones that demand that I'm out to lie about my own religion. Those make this thread ridiculous.

You debate when I want to inform. You criticize when I know my religion better than you. You insult the religion due to lack of understanding. People generalize when they "think" they know more about my religion than I do and they aren't even Muslim. So I guess I'm supposed to let people talk smack to me and I cannot defend myself or my religion? What is this?

It's hatred from all sides.

As I say, "Knowledge is ignorance to the ignorance and ignorance is ignorance to the Knowledgeable.

 

[MyM]

Do you think women should be able to lead prayers or go out with their hair exposed?

Ironic, given that you claim the Quran and sunnah do not contain things it does contain, and when people act on what is in the Quran and sunnah, you call them "un-Islamic".

Words and words again, accusations and accusations again.

You tangle my words when I bring forth proof from the Bible, you turn them around and mock my intellect. I am not the hateful one. Why do you hate so much?

 

[KWED]

Again, the news out there may not be exactly how you hear it.

That applies equally to you. To insist that you know THE TRUTH! when everyone else is in darkness is both naive and arrogant.

The torture the Muslims endure in Palestine-no water, food, children being killed on a daily basis, in the world, yes, these things are NOT known to the West

Nonsense. There are charities, appeals, protests, debates in parliament, etc. Don't believe the propaganda you are fed about "the big bad west".

There are bad people in every religion, but you don't blame the religion, you blame the people who are doing the wrongdoings.

You do blame the people if they are acting according to holy scripture.
Take ISIS using female captives for sex. You claimed that it is un-Islamic and is not allowed in the Quran and sunnah but it certainly is (as I showed with detailed references - which I notice you declined to respond to).
So, when ISIS use female captives for sex and cite those passages in the Quran and sunnah as justification, then Allah and Muhammad are most certainly to blame.
Remember that earlier you insists that the only "True Muslims" are the ones who strictly follow the Quran and sunnah and do not try to modify it to suit themselves.

If one wants to know more about the religion, you do NOT go to their enemies to understand it.

Indeed. The place to look for information about Islam is the Quran, sunnah and classical tafsir.
You should try it.

I live in Abu Dhabi, outside Dubai, I see from the outside looking in...it's a whole new bag of potato chips.

Because the media in the UAE is a bastion of free speech and objective reporting.

 

[MyM]

That applies equally to you. To insist that you know THE TRUTH! when everyone else is in darkness is both naive and arrogant.

Nonsense. There are charities, appeals, protests, debates in parliament, etc. Don't believe the propaganda you are fed about "the big bad west".

You do blame the people if they are acting according to holy scripture.
Take ISIS using female captives for sex. You claimed that it is un-Islamic and is not allowed in the Quran and sunnah but it certainly is (as I showed with detailed references - which I notice you declined to respond to).
So, when ISIS use female captives for sex and cite those passages in the Quran and sunnah as justification, then Allah and Muhammad are most certainly to blame.
Remember that earlier you insists that the only "True Muslims" are the ones who strictly follow the Quran and sunnah and do not try to modify it to suit themselves.

Indeed. The place to look for information about Islam is the Quran, sunnah and classical tafsir.
You should try it.

Because the media in the UAE is a bastion of free speech and objective reporting.

Again you bash and mock. It's people like you who bring hatred to the forums.
You say the same thing over and over and you make fun of it even after explanations simply because you don't want to believe. I am from the States, born and raised and UAE is more safe and realistic than the states in this point in time. So do not criticize what you do not know and understand.

No use in discussing with you, you keep lying, mocking and being unreasonable. I'm done with you.

 

[MyM]

Well, if a progressive American Muslim in Dubai still does not see that marrying a 8 years old girl to an old man is an abomination, independently of time and culture, an utter disrespect for girls and human feelings in general, then that speaks volumes of what all Islam thinks of women. It just tells me that all Muslims think alike. Progressive, and non progressive ones.

Talking of Dubai. That triggers another question, which is related to an anecdote.

During one of my vacations in the Pacific Islands, we had to stop in Dubai airport for a couple hours. I noticed there were separate prayers rooms, in the airport, for men and women (which is already ridiculous per se). You know, they had those little man/lady icons showing where women had to go, and men had to go. I remember that vividly, because the signalization made me confuse them for lavatories. So, since I had a biological call, I entered it. Only when I entered it with my boots and all, I realised it was not a lavatory. Fortunately nobody saw me. It would have been suboptimal to have been stoned to death at the beginning of vacation, lol.

But this association between prayer rooms and lavatories made me think. What is the policy considering transexuals who want to pray? Where do they go?

Ciao

- viole

First of all, Islam was completed over 1400 years ago. It is not to change, it will never change and God is the proof it cannot be changed. We are not to innovate anything to the religion. He said he will protect it and there have those that tried but could not. It shouldn't tell you that Muslims think alike because all mankind are not the same. I already gave you my explanation of women which you seem to be so hostile about when all it was-was praising women and putting them higher on the pedestal than women in religion.
You may say separate prayer rooms for men and women is ridiculous, but again, you don't understand why and you just assume with your lack of knowledge you ignorance correct. Your ignorance in Islam is typical. It takes just a little respect to try and understand why there are prayer rooms, wash rooms and ablution rooms. Yet you mock at what you don't understand. As for transexuals, in Islam, God created men and women. He didn't create transexuals. Men did that all on their own. There are prayer rooms for men, there are prayer rooms for women.

 

[KWED]

Another vague ramble with no answers.............................

Again: what mercy? How does this mercy manifest?

Trying to explain religious platitudes is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

 

[KWED]

The mercy is in that he tried to rescue people from hell in this world and sent them Messengers warning them, but in hell it's not about mercy, but about punishment and vengeance from God.

But Allah created hell in the first place, when there was no need for it.
And he created mankind when there was also no need.
He then created the conditions under which he sends people to hell.
So, how is any of that "merciful" or "just", and how is any of it anyone's responsibility but god's?

 

[KWED]

He is trying to save us from his wrath that we otherwise deserve.

Why is Allah so angry in the first place? Is it because he spent an eternity alone in an infinite nothingness, and just lost his mind and is lashing out incoherently?
Just a thought.

 

[KWED]

Exactly.

Meaning that what you claim his "mercy" is by giving us Islam, he is actually dooming people to being punished.

Meaning that all of humanity would be better of NOT hearing about it - as then nobody would have to be punished.

So the actual mercifull thing to do would be to keep silent!

And all this is also ignoring the absolutely absurd idea of him trying to "save us from himself".

If "saving us" means "not sending us to hell", then it would have been a LOT easier the simply remain silent, as mentioned previously and as acknowledged by you in your quote above.

Game. Set. Match.

Indeed.
If Allah really wanted to save us all from hell, then why did he create hell in the first place?
In fact, why did Allah bother to create humankind at all? It makes no sense.

 

[MyM]

Islam was sent as a mercy for mankind. Submission to the only one God, the Creator of the universe, the only one worthy of worship. Our duty upon this earth is to worship Him although we do not see Him, but we know He sees us.

If you have any questions regarding Islam, send a post here or in private and I will try to get back to you as soon as I am available.

Thank you,

MyM

I want to apologize for this thread turning into a circus stage. I meant sincerely and humbly to answer any questions people have about Islam. Now that I have experienced, on this forum, the "delights" of the athiests bashing, the mocking mercenaries out to get you, the meanness of some people and just sadness, I have opened up another thread for those who are sincerely wishing to understand or learn a little about Islam. I ask that there will be no bashing, horribleness and rudeness to carry over from this thread. MY sincere apologies.

 

[KWED]

This is not true. People immersed in injustice to each other and Shirk will be punished unless God saves us because we still know better.

How is a celibate, teetotal, vegan, pacifist doctor who spends their entire life volunteering for disaster charities - but who rejects Islam as ancient superstition on the basis of how they see the evidence and arguments, "immersed in injustice"?

The act of sending Messengers is an act of grace.

OK, first explain what an "act of grace" is, and then how sending messengers with an unconvincing and corrupted message which dooms most people to hell, an "act of grace"?

it belittles God.

If someone doesn't like me or says something about me that isn't true, I do not feel "belittled". I shrug and carry on, unaffected. I certainly don't feel violent towards them. Sounds like Allah needs some counselling and anger management courses.

Thus trying to guide humans so we don't die blind to his light, is an act of mercy.

If the Quran is the best he can come up with as a means of revealing himself to all of mankind, then he is not omnipotent, omniscient or infallible.

 

[KWED]

I want to apologize for this thread turning into a proper debate.

This is a religious debate forum that is open to everyone. It is not an IIslam echo chamber website. What did you expect?

I meant sincerely and humbly to answer any questions people have about Islam.

No you didn't. You avoided answering questions and just trotted out the usual religious platitudes.
You did the same thing on the other thread. You accused me of lying about Islam because you weren't aware of the issue that I raised. When I provided chapter and verse references, you disappeared (after warning me about the dangers of criticising Islam).

Now that I have experienced, on this forum, the "delights" of the athiests bashing, the mocking mercenaries out to get you, the meanness of some people and just sadness, I have opened up another thread for those who are sincerely wishing to understand or learn a little about Islam. I ask that there will be no bashing, horribleness and rudeness to carry over from this thread. MY sincere apologies.

WADR, I understand that you are uncomfortable with your own inability to come up with anything other than scriptural quotes in response to reasonable questions and points, but that's your problem, not anyone else's.

 

[KWED]

There is no compulsion in our religion

1. "Worship me or I will torture you for eternity". How is that coercion by threat of violence?
2. "I have been commanded to fight the believers until they submit to Islam. Then their blood and property will be protected" - How is that not using violence to compel people to submit?
3. "This way they have no choice but to accept Islam or die" - Ibn Kathir on verse 9:5
4. The context of the pronouncement of 2:256 was not about using force to spread Islam.

The claim that there is "no compulsion in religion" simply shows a misunderstanding (wilful or otherwise) of the text, or highlights yet more contradictions in the Quran. Either way, another reason to doubt Islam's validity.

In saying this, we as Muslims, are to be humble. We accept what Allah swt says in the Quran. We adhere to His words and it isn't for us to opinionize His words with our own understandings when we have proof-the best proof from Allah and Mohammad pbuh.

So why did you insist that Islam does not allow using female captives for sex when both Allah and Muhammad clearly condone it?

 

[KWED]

We as Muslims should do what Allah says for us to do enjoin good and forbid evil.

The problem is that some of what Allah (and Muhammad) considered "good" is now universally considered to be morally unacceptable. Similarly, some of what Allah and Muhammad believe is "evil" is actually perfectly natural and reasonable.
So, how do you, personally, deal what that contradiction?

 

[KWED]

I pray that Allah guides us all and keeps us on the guided straight path ameen

Surely those who Allah guides on the straight path have an unfair advantage over those whom he misguides and leads astray so that none can guide them.
How is that merciful, just or fair?

 

[KWED]

But how do you square this sort of asymmetric morality (why not covering men, too?) with worshipping a God whose main prophet was into little child girls?

To be fair, Muhammad is only recorded as having sex with one little girl (she was 6 when he married her, but he had the decency to wait until she was 9 before consummating the marriage).

 

[KWED]

In Islam you are given free will to choose or refuse.

But if you refuse, there is a terrible punishment, so hardly a "free choice". Kinda like the person being mugged at knifepoint "freely choosing" to hand over their wallet.

People from the past degraded women, humiliated women, killed, abused and accused

And they still do, the world over, including in all Muslim countries.

raped,

Although I accept that there is no concept of "rape" in the Quran or sunnah, Islam specifically allows using female captives for sex - which is classed as "rape" today.

In the Islamic, religion, you do not have that.

More sanitising and cherry-picking, I see.

Men are protectors of women. Paradise lies at the feet of the mother.

More meaningless platitudes.

We are indeed the weaker of the two. It's just how Allah made man and women.

A very reductivist and patriarchal attitude.

In Islam, women and men will be judged according to their own deeds. If both commits a major sin, they both will be judged the same. In that, men and women in the site of Allah are the same.

Can a woman have multiple husbands?
If a married woman has sex with her male slave, it is zina and she may be stoned to death. A married man may lawfully have sex with his female slave.

Islam does not humiliate women nor their intelligence....
In Islam, women are told to cover up to show only their "ornamentations" to their husbands, brothers, uncles, fathers, grandfathers-to whom they cannot marry. This is a protection for them. To display them is a degradation.

In Islam, women have had the right to vote way before the west did.

In which countries?

They didn't have to fight for their right to exist.

Now you are just being silly.

Women can marry whomever they want,

Allah’s Messenger the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, “A marriage contract is not valid without a wali.” (Abū Dāwūd, at-Tirmithĩ)
"Islam forbids a woman to get married without a wali (guardian), and it regards a marriage contract done without a wali as invalid." - Shaykh al-Munajjid

Can she marry another woman?

they can work, vote, travel, etc. and they have guidelines in Islam to help them do just that.

And those "guidelines" are?
(And why does a woman need these "guidelines"? Why can't she just work where, when, and with whom she wants?)

Men and women are never and will never be equal because God didn't created us equal.

Oops! That's kinda undone all your earlier efforts.

Islam urges the husband to treat his wife in a good and kind manner,

It also says he may beat her if he suspect ill-conduct (under certain conditions).

Women have the right to a decent life, without facing aggression or being wronged.

And yet simply not obeying your husband can lead to a beating. And having consensual, adult sex with your partner can lead being flogged with 100 lashes.

Women have the right to be educated; in fact it is obligatory to teach them what they need to know about their religion.

There is nothing in the Quran or sunnah that mentions providing women with a general education.
Religious indoctrination is not education. It is the antithesis of it.

 

[KWED]

Banning is extremely wrong.

So Islam doesn't ban anything? Are you sure about that?

To hurt people because of their belief is a sign of tyrants

So we agree that Allah is a tyrant.

As for Mohammad pbuh marrying Aisha, he did not consummate the MARRIAGE until she was mature enough.

In what insane world is a 9 year old girl "mature enough" for sex with a 54 year old man?

When a women reaches puberty, she is allowed to Marry. Even back during the days of Kings and Queens the same thing happened and no one thought any different.

In reality, medieval kings did not marry and have sex with 9 year old girls. And even if they had, those kings are not revered as "the best of creation", the ultimate role model and moral example for people to aspire to, unlike Muhammad.