Ask About Islam

[mikkel_the_dane]

Hello

I want to say, that I have memorized in Arabic the entire suratal Baqarah. It talks about many things. Talks about in the first few pages about wherein this book is truth and contains no doubt. Talks about those who believe in it and how they will be successful. Talks about those who have been warned and turned away (and Allah knows already who will believe or not) no matter if you warn them or not they will not believe --and in saying that, in Islam gives them the choice. So it isn't Allah misleading them and since he already knows who will believe or not, he puts a seal on their hearts (from their own making and Allah says they deceive themselves). Talks about how he created punishments for them. Which is perfectly normal for one who goes against God. Talks about those who cause corruption on earth and they claim they are coming in the name of peace. (sound familiar?) Talks about the hypocrites, talks about provisions Allah has sent, talks about how he gave adam the names of all things, etc. etc. etc....so when you say, what you read it was a shock to you...maybe you could reread it now and understand that what I am saying is a better enlightenment into the understanding of the first few things you read. Remember, when it talks about the unbelievers and hellfire they will face, remember it is not Allah that is just choosing, it is the choice for those who he already knows who will believe or not.

In the Quran, it says the beginning of the Quran,

ذَٰلِكَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ هُدًۭى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ
ٱلَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِٱلْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَـٰهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ
وَٱلَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِٱلْـَٔاخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ
أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ عَلَىٰ هُدًۭى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ


This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,
And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].
Those are upon

guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful.​

Yeah, I still have a different faith than you.

 

[MyM]

I understand perfectly. Take 3:32 for example. There is only one way to understand "God is the enemy of unbelievers". No amount of massaging can ever change the meaning of such a simple statement.

Btw, it's not lost on me that your responses have become more and more ad hominem based. That's always the first refuge of those who are losing the argument.

Let me put the verse you are not putting it for someone to see.
(3:32) Say: 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.

What is wrong with this verse? I see nothing. Allah has every right to not love those who go against him. If you had someone come to you and you know he is bad, you know he will commit evil and he comes at you with a knife, makes you watch while he rapes your wife are you going to love this person? You know he is bad, you know he is doing evil and you know he will never stop. So, you gonna say, aww go ahead make my day, my wife is all yours go ahead and rape her but make sure you kill her after and I will still love you. .... what nonsense. You want to punish this person!

In Islam, the unbelievers that Allah knows that will not go to him, will not adhere to his last message, the ones that are so adamant in doing evil and not wanting to believe in Him, he has indeed made a place for them. And in Islam, Allah can do as he pleases.

It took me some time to come to Islam and I did turn away from it at the beginning, but then I came to reason. I turned away because I was scared...but I knew in my heart Allah is one.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Let me put the verse you are not putting it for someone to see.
(3:32) Say: 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.

What is wrong with this verse? I see nothing. Allah has every right to not love those who go against him. If you had someone come to you and you know he is bad, you know he will commit evil and he comes at you with a knife, makes you watch while he rapes your wife are you going to love this person? You know he is bad, you know he is doing evil and you know he will never stop. So, you gonna say, aww go ahead make my day, my wife is all yours go ahead and rape her but make sure you kill her after and I will still love you. .... what nonsense. You want to punish this person!

In Islam, the unbelievers that Allah knows that will not go to him, will not adhere to his last message, the ones that are so adamant in doing evil and not wanting to believe in Him, he has indeed made a place for them. And in Islam, Allah can do as he pleases.

It took me some time to come to Islam and I did turn away from it at the beginning, but then I came to reason. I turned away because I was scared...but I knew in my heart Allah is one.

Only if there is an actual God. But that requires faith for you to believe in. Can you just let the rest of us have our faith and then try to find a compromise for this world. Or do you really have to claim in the end, that we must do like you or Hell?

 

[MyM]

This seems to be against what you earlier have written as to humanity being so awful - when it usually is a minority of such and who can't ever reflect on the majority. Unless one was to see it as such - so as to be persuaded of some particular doctrine.

Do you have a question? Please ask it.

 

[MyM]

Yeah, I still have a different faith than you.

That's fine I'm not here to convert anyone just relaying the message

 

[MyM]

Only if there is an actual God. But that requires faith for you to believe in. Can you just let the rest of us have our faith and then try to find a compromise for this world. Or do you really have to claim in the end, that we must do like you or Hell?

I am just telling you what Islam is and what I believe. I am not here to tell you to believe or not that is upon you. In Islam, I did my duty. This thread was supposed to be for those who are sincere in learning about Islam yet people seem to have hijacked it into mockness. If you wish, you don't have to be in this thread

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am just telling you what Islam is and what I believe. I am not here to tell you to believe or not that is upon you. In Islam, I did my duty. This thread was supposed to be for those who are sincere in learning about Islam yet people seem to have hijacked it into mockness. If you wish, you don't have to be in this thread

Yeah, so you don't believe I will go to Hell at all. I can do just as I please and I will go to Heaven. Okay. Works fine with me.

 

[KWED]

G-d is not merciful to a treacherous ingrate..

1. So Allah is not "most merciful", he is just "sometimes merciful".
2. Why is someone born into a family of non-religious scientists, who is taught to demand evidence and rational argument before accepting extraordinary claims, a "treacherous ingrate". You can't be treacherous or ungrateful towards someone who you think doesn't exist.

That person only has themselves to blame.

No. Allah is to blame for A) having them born into a non-Muslim family, or B) for misguiding them, or C) for not providing convincing evidence, or C) for making his "evidence" look exactly like it was made up by 7th century Arab men, or any combination of those.

Some people sink so low, they leave themselves no way out.

Classic victim blaming.

 

[ppp]

This is all based on a logical fallacy.
i.e. G-d can kill Himself

First, God can kill himself is not a logical fallacy. It may be out of his nature, but it is not a fallacy.
Second, annihilating a soul (a piece of your god) is not killing himself, any more than is barking your knuckles.

Conversation becomes meaningless if you claim that G-d is beyond logic & reason.

Third, Omnipotence is a logical fallacy (beyond logic and reason). Specifically, omnipotence entails the fallacy of contradiction.

Well, if you claim that any concept is not "bound to a particular meaning", then our communication is pointless.

Go back and read. That is not even close to what I said. But if you want to take that as an out - later

 

[KWED]

There's your logical disconnect.

Who else is in need of mercy if not one who has committed the unforgivable? One who has done what is asked of him (i.e. a Muslim) is not in need of it. Unbelievers are the only ones who are, but your god has unequivocally stated many hundreds of times that none will be forthcoming. That brings us back to the point that "The Merciful" simply is not.

Indeed. It's like the "god guides those who believe in him but misguides those who don't".
It is both a redundant argument and circular logic. And possibly self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[KWED]

This is a complete misunderstanding of the situation.
G-d cannot logically forgive or show mercy to a person who does not repent.

Of course he can. He is god. He makes the rules, and implements them. He might not want to, but if he wanted to, he could.
God simply decides not to show any mercy to disbelievers - so he is clearly not all or most merciful.
And as he does not need to show mercy to those who have not incurred any punishment, Allah is actually not very merciful at all.

It is yet again, the case of atheists stating they believe in a worldly reality which is not negotiable, but wanting to create a different reality because G-d can make us all live happily ever after.

No idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[KWED]

Are you comparing yourself to G-d?

Yes, I am.
You claim Allah is "most merciful" (shows the greatest amount of mercy possible).
He does not show mercy to disbelievers and tortures them for eternity because of their religious beliefs.
I would not torture anyone for any amount of time for their religious beliefs.
Therefore I am more merciful than Allah.

G-d is not a person. There is a part of G-d in each one of us. A soul.
If the soul does not repent, it cannot be on a righteous path.

So our soul does not repent, but our soul is a part of god, so it is god who is not repenting.
So why are we punished for god's actions?

A person who forgives, forgives for themselves. It does not benefit the non-repentant soul
G-d has no need of being forgiven. He has no need..

So forgiveness is for the forgiver, but it is not for the forgiver.
You seem to be confusing yourself here. Ot's what happened when you just repeat religious platitudes without critically analysing their implications.

There can be no change in a soul if it does not repent or ask for forgiveness.

Why not?

That is by definition, when we talk about G-d's forgiveness.

By whose definition?
So god cannot forgive someone who dies not ask for it?

Hell is a consequence. It is not a punishment in the sense of one person punishing another.

Of course it is. Allah punishes individuals for their behaviour.
Punishment is a consequence, by definition.

Consequence - something that happens as a result of a particular action or set of conditions (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Going to hell (punishment) is a consequence of disbelief (action).

 

[KWED]

Btw, I would like all the unbelievers (non-Muslims) out there to see exactly how we are portrayed in Islam. They may smile at you, but this is how they actually see you (not all Muslims - just the ones who know and faithfully follow the Qur'an).

We are also "the worst of beasts" (8:55)
"Hatred and enmity towards disbelievers is a good example to follow" (60:4)
"Worse than cattle" (7:179)

As I often say, most Muslims are better than their religion.
And those that claim Islam teaches to respect everyone are either misinformed or dishonest.

 

[KWED]

That's a reasonable question that I would like to jump in and answer for myself. After 9/11, I heard some people claim that Islam condones such acts against unbelievers, and I didn't believe them. I decided to read the Qur'an so I could prove that Islam was actually peaceful and tolerant. Those good intentions didn't survive the beginning of surah 2. I was gob-smacked at the sheer hatred directed at unbelievers, and it only got worse from there. I can honestly say I read the Qur'an with a bias towards Islam.

Exactly this.
I used to consider Islam as some kind of esoteric, eastern version of Christianity, kinda Morgan Freeman in Robin Hood, etc. It wasn't until I read the Quran that my view on Islam changed. When discussing this with Muslims I was told that I cant really understand the Quran properly unless I read it with a tafsir. So I used Ibn Kathir and read it again. Which made things worse!

"Reading it with an open mind" is usually shorthand for "reading it with the presumption that it is all true, and that anything seemingly unpleasant must have some reasonable explanation".

 

[KWED]

If you looking for hatred you find hatred,

Not if there is no hatred.
And with the Quran, you will find hatred even if you are not looking for it, because it is there in black and white. Verse 60:4 even specifically says that hatred for disbelievers is a good thing.

if you looking for enlightenment from within, you will find enlightenment from within.

So no need for any god or messengers or holy books then.

 

[Link]

Not if there is no hatred.
And with the Quran, you will find hatred even if you are not looking for it, because it is there in black and white. Verse 60:4 even specifically says that hatred for disbelievers is a good thing.

So no need for any god or messengers or holy books then.

I hope people read the whole chapter, that contextualizes that verse, expands on it, etc.

Anyone want to read chapter 60 and tell this guy why he should read whole chapter? LMAO.

 

[KWED]

Nope you don't understand. Why do you mock what you don't understand? Is it a default mechanism?
Have you even read in the Bible how God has a wrath and not all loving? I do think you are full of hate and please if you are a truthful person, if you want to know about Islam, ask sincerely and do not mock and show hatefulness. It isn't becoming.

Your response to every reasoned, referenced question or criticism seems to be ...
"You are full of hatred and ignorance. Islam is perfect".
Do you really think that will work on rational, independent thinkers?

 

[Link]

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. . O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Apostle and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord? If you go forth struggling hard in My path and seeking My pleasure, would you manifest love to them? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest; and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path. 1If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve. 2Your relationship would not profit you, nor your children on the day of resurrection; He will decide between you; and Allah sees what you do. 3Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone-- but not in what Ibrahim said to his father: I would certainly ask forgiveness for you, and I do not control for you aught from Allah-- Our Lord! on Thee do we rely, and to Thee do we turn, and to Thee is the eventual coming: 4Our Lord! do not make us a trial for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord! surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. 5Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. 6It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 7Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. 8Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust. 9O you who believe! when believing women come to you flying, then examine them; Allah knows best their faith; then if you find them to be believing women, do not send them back to the unbelievers, neither are these (women) lawful for them, nor are those (men) lawful for them, and give them what they have spent; and no blame attaches to you in marrying them when you give them their dowries; and hold not to the ties of marriage of unbelieving women, and ask for what you have spent, and let them ask for what they have spent. That is Allah's judgment; He judges between you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise. 10And if anything (out of the dowries) of your wives has passed away from you to the unbelievers, then your turn comes, give to those whose wives have gone away the like of what they have spent, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah in Whom you believe. 11O Prophet! when believing women come to you giving you a pledge that they will not associate aught with Allah, and will not steal, and will not commit fornication, and will not kill their children, and will not bring a calumny which they have forged of themselves, and will not disobey you in what is good, accept their pledge, and ask forgiveness for them from Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 12O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs. 13

 

[Link]

All we are asking you to KWED is some fair approach. Read that chapter lol.

Are you being fair by isolating and interpreting as an absolute statement instead of with:

إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَنْ تَوَلَّوْهُمْ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ | Allah forbids you only in regard to those who made war against you on account of religion and expelled you from your homes and supported [the polytheists of Makkah] in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them—it is they who are the wrongdoers. | Al-Mumtahana : 9

Too funny bro.

This is the guy who reads Tafsir right.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not if there is no hatred.
And with the Quran, you will find hatred even if you are not looking for it, because it is there in black and white. Verse 60:4 even specifically says that hatred for disbelievers is a good thing.

So no need for any god or messengers or holy books then.

I must be a poor sufi because I do not hate anything or anyone.