Ask About Islam

[KWED]

I opened this thread for people who wanted to learn about Islam

No. You started it in order to preach pro-Islamic propaganda.
Every time anyone asks a difficult question you get all insulting and defensive and avoid actually responding to the points raised, merely repeating dogmatic platitudes.

, not for those to come in and just mock us.

For the last time, challenge and criticism isn't "mockery". Why not just try thinking about peoples questions and try to construct a reasonable response, rather than attacking with insults? I thought Islam taught you to be respectful and polite. Verse 60:8 says to "deal kindly with those that have not fought you or driven you out of your homes", and Muhammad said you should "speak a good word or remain silent".

 

[KWED]

Do you really want to know or are you here just to cause hatred? As for the unbelievers, Again, in Islam, it isn't just a book of goodie goodies, Allah talks about many things. His punishments for those who do no believe...WARNINGS, he talks about heaven, hell, prophets, messengers, day of judgement and much more. But you seem to only concentrate on the unbelievers...why? There are many good things in Islam that you don't even take the time out to find out. In Islam, it encompasses everything.

So you believe, amongst other things, that disbelievers are "evil" and "the enemy" and to be "hated", as stated in the Quran?
Not interested in what the Quran says about anyone else at this point, only what it says about disbelievers.

 

[Sheldon]

When you take verses out of the Quran and try to use them at your advantage, things can backfire. Know that.

I don't believe that, unless it's a veiled threat for something horrible in the here and now of course?

For those who disbelieve...in Islam, the believers and disbelievers will be tested on this earth and even on the Day of Judgement.

I am no more afraid of that unevidenced claim, than I am of being dragged to a watery grave by a nefarious mermaid.

In Islam, you have a brain that has been given to you and Allah created mankind in the best of forms. (surat teen)

The human brain evolved, as have all living things, this is an objective fact supported by am overwhelming amount of evidence.

So, in saying this, Allah knows already who will believe or not but he has given free will to mankind.

That is irrational since it violates the logical law on non contradiction.

In Islam, God is the one that is in control over all. Yes, he made hellfire and he made Paradise. Take for example a killer, a murderer, a rapist, or an abuser. These are horrible people, but if they turn to God in repentance and believe in the Oneness of Allah and his messages, Allah is able to forgive.

So murder and rape can be waved away, but rational thinking and atheism cannot, that rather speaks volumes.

But in Islam, there is one sin that He will never forgive and that is associating partners unto Him. In saying that, He is able to make hellfire for those he wants. Who are we to question Allah as to why.

We are evolved apes, we cannot be otherwise.

He has his wrath as well as he has His Mercy. I never said he has to be all God's love like in Christianity claims. In Islam, we believe Allah can do as He wills and wishes and we are not to question why.

This is just a doctrinal method of silencing critical thinking, to avoid religious beliefs being subjected to critical scrutiny. It's hardly unique to Islam either.

 

[Sheldon]

If we deceive ourselves we are certain about things, when we aren't certain of, our knowledge of truth get's mixed with deceptions of falsehood.

 

[Sheldon]

The Qur'an has not been seriously challenged by anybody.

Of course it has, though sadly in many parts of the world this is a very risky undertaking. yet many people have been vocally critical of it.

God is Not Great - Christopher Hitchens

 

[Sheldon]

If you looking for hatred you find hatred, if you looking for enlightenment from within, you will find enlightenment from within.

It's a pretty poor message then, if one can interpret it to mean whatever they want. So hardly indicative it origins are an omniscient deity. Then again the idea that an omniscient and omnipotent deity can only communicate effectively as a monoglot has always raised a wry smile.

 

[KWED]

I want to say, that I have memorized in Arabic the entire suratal Baqarah.

Why? Don't you have a copy?

Talks about those who have been warned and turned away (and Allah knows already who will believe or not) no matter if you warn them or not they will not believe --and in saying that, in Islam gives them the choice. So it isn't Allah misleading them and since he already knows who will believe or not, he puts a seal on their hearts (from their own making and Allah says they deceive themselves).

"Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment."
Why does Allah fix their disbelief? Why has he made it so they cannot believe, "even if they are warned"?
Allah wants everyone to worship him. It's the only reason he created us (needy much?). So why does he stop people from believing?
If you are going to say that god knows the future and knows they will never believe through their own actions - then why does he place the seal? It serves no purpose - except to make sure that there is absolutely no possibility of them believing, which again makes no sense.

Talks about how he created punishments for them.

Why do disbelievers need punishing? What is wrong with not worshiping Allah? How does it harm or affect Allah? Where is the harm or loss caused that requires punishment?

Which is perfectly normal for one who goes against God.

Only because that's what god does - and there is no rational explanation for why he does it.

Talks about those who cause corruption on earth and they claim they are coming in the name of peace. (sound familiar?)

Ibn Kathir explains that "fasad" includes things like disbelief and disobeying god's law.
Also, "cause corruption on earth and they claim they are coming in the name of peace" could well describe any imperialist conquest, whether Christian or Islamic.

so when you say, what you read it was a shock to you...maybe you could reread it now and understand that what I am saying is a better enlightenment into the understanding of the first few things you read.

Even the opening passages that you cite contain description of terrible punishment for simply not submitting to Islam (even when it is Allah that prevents belief). Do you really not see how that concept is unacceptable to civilised socially?

Remember, when it talks about the unbelievers and hellfire they will face, remember it is not Allah that is just choosing,

Of course it is! Allah didn't have to create hell. Allah doesn't have to torture disbelievers for eternity. It is his choice.
It's like a person claiming it is not their fault they are torturing a child because the child chose to accept the sweeties and get in the van.

In the Quran, it says the beginning of the Quran,
This is the Book about which there is no doubt,

Another mistake in the Quran. There is plenty of doubt. Not just with the majority of people rejecting it as ancient superstition or a false religion, but even Muslims disagreeing on what it means.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No. Allah is to blame..

If that's what you think..

 

[muhammad_isa]

First, God can kill himself is not a logical fallacy...

If you think that G-d can be eternal and kill Himself and still be eternal,
then you have an odd idea of what is logical..

 

[muhammad_isa]

Of course he can. He is god.

..but you don't believe in any gods .. so what do you know?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Going to hell (punishment) is a consequence of disbelief (action).

Yes, it is.
The reason for that is due to the nature of our souls.
I have explained once, so..

 

[muhammad_isa]

Verse 60:4 even specifically says that hatred for disbelievers is a good thing..

No it doesn't.
You are right that we are not to turn our backs on those that wish evil upon us.
We are to defend ourselves and show fierceness.

Hate? No. We should hate evil actions .. but not people.

 

[MyM]

I don't believe that, unless it's a veiled threat for something horrible in the here and now of course?



I am no more afraid of that unevidenced claim, than I am of being dragged to a watery grave by a nefarious mermaid.



The human brain evolved, as have all living things, this is an objective fact supported by am overwhelming amount of evidence.



That is irrational since it violates the logical law on non contradiction.



So murder and rape can be waved away, but rational thinking and atheism cannot, that rather speaks volumes.



We are evolved apes, we cannot be otherwise.



This is just a doctrinal method of silencing critical thinking, to avoid religious beliefs being subjected to critical scrutiny. It's hardly unique to Islam either.

I don't believe that, unless it's a veiled threat for something horrible in the here and now of course?



I am no more afraid of that unevidenced claim, than I am of being dragged to a watery grave by a nefarious mermaid.



The human brain evolved, as have all living things, this is an objective fact supported by am overwhelming amount of evidence.



That is irrational since it violates the logical law on non contradiction.



So murder and rape can be waved away, but rational thinking and atheism cannot, that rather speaks volumes.



We are evolved apes, we cannot be otherwise.



This is just a doctrinal method of silencing critical thinking, to avoid religious beliefs being subjected to critical scrutiny. It's hardly unique to Islam either.

apes? God forbid. I know my Creator creea

I don't believe that, unless it's a veiled threat for something horrible in the here and now of course?



I am no more afraid of that unevidenced claim, than I am of being dragged to a watery grave by a nefarious mermaid.



The human brain evolved, as have all living things, this is an objective fact supported by am overwhelming amount of evidence.



That is irrational since it violates the logical law on non contradiction.



So murder and rape can be waved away, but rational thinking and atheism cannot, that rather speaks volumes.



We are evolved apes, we cannot be otherwise.



This is just a doctrinal method of silencing critical thinking, to avoid religious beliefs being subjected to critical scrutiny. It's hardly unique to Islam either.

Jeepers, you think we evolved from apes? I know my creator made me with brains lol ...if we evolved from apes how come there are apes still not like humans and since mankind has been around, not one ape has evolved into a human lol come on seriously you believe in that?

you cannot "silence" intelligence lol nice try though

 

[Mock Turtle]

apes? God forbid. I know my Creator creea

Jeepers, you think we evolved from apes? I know my creator made me with brains lol ...if we evolved from apes how come there are apes still not like humans and since mankind has been around, not one ape has evolved into a human lol come on seriously you believe in that?

you cannot "silence" intelligence lol nice try though

But that is what you are doing, and you show it. We have a common ancestor with other primates, so no one believes we evolved from apes.

 

[ppp]

If you think that G-d can be eternal and kill Himself and still be eternal,
then you have an odd idea of what is logical..

A line that only stretches eternally in one direction is still eternal.

 

[MyM]

But that is what you are doing, and you show it. We have a common ancestor with other primates, so no one believes we evolved from apes.

I'm sorry but intelligence to me does not involved me coming from apes. In Islam, Allah says,
“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:1]

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

A line that only stretches eternally in one direction is still eternal.

Well, wouldn't it have one end which is not eternal? That is new one for me, so I really no sarcasm would like to learn.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm sorry but intelligence to me does not involved me coming from apes. In Islam, Allah says,
“O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:1]

So could you learn to limit Allah to you and not drag the rest of us into it? So am I going to Hell? Did I miss your answer on that one?

 

[MyM]

Well, wouldn't it have one end which is not eternal? That is new one for me, so I really no sarcasm would like to learn.

So could you learn to limit Allah to you and not drag the rest of us into it? So am I going to Hell? Did I miss your answer on that one?

Ok Ok, so you are backlashing when confronted. I understand.

In Islam, I am not allowed to tell anyone that they are going to hell or heaven unless it is known.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok Ok, so you are backlashing when confronted. I understand.

In Islam, I am not allowed to tell anyone that they are going to hell or heaven unless it is known.

So how do I know if I go to Hell or is it unknown as such?