Ask About Islam

[KWED]

Take a closer look:

Or are you still hearing nonsense.

 

[KWED]

The problem is, if G-d teaches us [in scripture etc.] to never engage in war, those that wish evil against us will have no difficulty in their plight.

The problem is that your god seems to think that anyone who does not submit to Islam therefore "wishes evil" against Islam.

 

[MyM]

Not good translators? Are you actually making stuff up? At that time Islam was full of highly educated people in all fields. It's known that they picked up from Greek works and expanded on them.

Many classical works, including those of Aristotle, were transmitted from Greek to Syriac, then to Arabic, then to Latin in the Middle Ages. Aristotle's zoology remained dominant in its field for two thousand years.[v

scholars such as Al-Kindi[3] translated Indian, Assyrian, Sasanian (Persian) and Greek knowledge, including the works of Aristotle, into Arabic. These translations supported advances by scientists across the Islamic world.[4]

Medieval Islamic scientific achievements encompassed a wide range of subject areas, especially mathematics, astronomy, and medicine.[4] Other subjects of scientific inquiry included physics, alchemy and chemistry, ophthalmology, and geography and cartography.[6]

The Islamic Golden Age (roughly between 786 and 1258) spanned the period of the Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258), with stable political structures and flourishing trade. Major religious and cultural works of the Islamic empire were translated into Arabic and occasionally Persian. Islamic culture inherited Greek, Indic, Assyrian and Persian influences.

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia

I'm talking about the Bible

and the Quran doesn't contain ANY GREEK TRANSLATIONS.

am not talking about ordinary knowledge. In Islam, you are to gain knowledge from anywhere. Arabs were extremely knowledgeable and expanded the knowledge we use today and many benefits from it til this day. Like the number 0 and algebra....without that...don't think much of the world would be like it is today. But I'm not comparing knowledge from Arab to Greek or vice versa.

Talkin about the Bible...why do you have to go so far?

 

[muhammad_isa]

There is a passage in the Quran that says to attack non-believers and some that say live and let live. So neither side would be completely correct or incorrect if trying to make a policy about peace or war.

You need to talk with a learned person about that, but to my understanding, Muslims should not attack those who don't attack them. Muslims should also not break treaties unless the other party breaks them.
In other words, deception is not acceptable while a treaty is in force.

 

[KWED]

You need to talk with a learned person about that, but to my understanding, Muslims should not attack those who don't attack them.

The Quran says to "fight the disbelievers until all religion is for Allah" (8:38)
There are also several sahih hadith where Muhammad expands on this "I have been commanded to fight the disbelievers until they submit to Islam, then their lives and property will be saved".
How is that possible without taking the offensive?
How did Muhammad manage to conquer half of Arabia without invading anyone?
Also, your claim would justify attacking people who are merely defending their land from an invader.

Muslims should also not break treaties unless the other party breaks them.

Muhammad ended the treaty of Hudaybiyyah and invaded Mecca, even after the Meccans had sent an emissary to Muhammad to plead for peace and to maintain the treaty.
But then you have already admitted that you don't know about Islamic history.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..you have already admitted that you don't know about Islamic history.

It's not my strong subject .. no.
..but I would believe what a Muslim tells me over an atheist,
any day of the week.

 

[KWED]

It's not my strong subject .. no.
..but I would believe what a Muslim tells me over an atheist,
any day of the week.

And there lies one of your biggest problems. You are not interested in truth or facts, only reassurance.
It's pretty poor that you even think that way, but to happily admit it in public is mind boggling!

 

[KWED]

It's not my strong subject .. no.
..but I would believe what a Muslim tells me over an atheist,
any day of the week.

So just to be clear... if you are in a lecture about Middle Eastern history and a world renowned professor (who is also an atheist) in the subject explains the historical issues around the conquest of Mecca - if the person sitting next to you (who is a Muslim but with no qualifications in Middle Eastern history) says "that's rubbish", you will believe him and reject the professor's lecture?
Really?
Simply because of their relative position on the existence and which version of god?
Wow! That's quite an admission.

 

[KWED]

It's not my strong subject .. no.
..but I would believe what a Muslim tells me over an atheist,
any day of the week.

Also notice you ignored my argument refuting your claim that the Quran only permits fighting in self-defence.
Quelle surprise!

 

[muhammad_isa]

You are not interested in truth or facts, only reassurance.

Well, you would say that.
You have an agenda of showing Islam in a bad light.
I'd rather read the Qur'an than respond to silly arguments from anonymous 'trolls'

 

[KWED]

Well, you would say that.

No, you said it!...
"I would believe what a Muslim tells me over an atheist, any day of the week."
Thus clearly showing you are concerned with reassurance over the truth.

You have an agenda of showing Islam in a bad light.

I don't need to show it. The bad elements are apparent to anyone reading the Quran with an open mind. I am merely explaining to you why your confirmation bias driven narrative is flawed.

I'd rather read the Qur'an than respond to silly arguments from anonymous 'trolls'

And yet here you are, day after day, making your arguments and claims.
BTW, don't think you understand what "troll" means.

 

[muhammad_isa]

BTW, don't think you understand what "troll" means.

You are not asking about Islam as per OP.
..hence you are trolling while claiming to be an 'expert'

 

[KWED]

You are not asking about Islam as per OP.
..hence you are trolling

Oh behave!
Online debates usually change in the subject matter and often end up discussing things quite different to the issue raised in the first post. If you are claiming that anyone who discusses anything beyond the strict scope of the OP is a "troll", then you are just as much a troll as I am.

However, I understand that this approach helps you avoid responding to the many points and questions that you are not comfortable addressing.

while claiming to be an 'expert'

I have not claimed to be an "expert". I have merely presented evidence and rational argument on the basis of the study that I have done - that you seem to be going to great lengths to avoid addressing.

 

[MyM]

The Bhagavad Gita is an entire philosophical discussion on the nature of war, framed as a discussion between Krishna and a prince.


All this stuff about God teaching stuff is pure speculation. As is a correct understanding of an afterlife. Just as Krishna didn't really speak wisdom to Arjuna no scripture is divine words from anything except people.
Political systems can lead to war but so can religions. Religions will war between each other as well as groups with different interpretations of scripture. There is a passage in the Quran that says to attack non-believers and some that say live and let live. So neither side would be completely correct or incorrect if trying to make a policy about peace or war.

Please don't take things out of context. The Quran was brought down during a period of 23 years. It was revealed during situations pertainin to what was happening at that time so you cannot just pick things out of the Quran and say it means that. In Islam, we have authentic scholars who know the Quran.

1. Islam urges Muslims to show kindness to parents even if they are non-Muslims.
2. Islam advises Muslims to treat neighbors kindly even if they are not Muslim.
3. Islam encourages Muslims to ensure justice and show kindness to non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims.
4. Islam prohibits killing non-Muslims living under Muslim rule.
5. Islam prohibits wronging a mu‘ahid, (non-Muslim living in a Muslim land)detracting from his rights, or burdening him with more work.
6. Islam prohibits committing transgression and commands justice.

 

[Sheldon]

KWED said: ↑
You are not interested in truth or facts, only reassurance.

Well, you would say that.

Actually it was you said that, when you admitted you didn't care what anyone knew, you'd believe a Muslim over an atheist any day of the week. As KWED pointed out, that is an astonishing claim.

You have an agenda of showing Islam in a bad light.

As per your claim, you seem to be playing the man, not the ball.

 

[Sheldon]

You are not asking about Islam as per OP.
..hence you are trolling while claiming to be an 'expert'

Your last three posts have attacked KWED rather than addressing what he has posted, while also making the astonishing admission you don't care about truth facts or sound reasoning, you'd "believe a Muslim over an atheist any day of the week."

So your accusation seems like projection. I also haven't seen KWED claim to be an expert, so nice straw man fallacy.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I showed you god as the husband, I also showed you the wife, and the children.

It is a repeat of what I've been saying and showing the whole time in this thread.

Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table. Psalm 128:3

The fruitful vine is the grape/wine
The olive plants is the olive/oil

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Corn - Oil - Wine

Are you having issues with comprehending that?

 

[joelr]

I'm talking about the Bible

and the Quran doesn't contain ANY GREEK TRANSLATIONS.

am not talking about ordinary knowledge. In Islam, you are to gain knowledge from anywhere. Arabs were extremely knowledgeable and expanded the knowledge we use today and many benefits from it til this day. Like the number 0 and algebra....without that...don't think much of the world would be like it is today. But I'm not comparing knowledge from Arab to Greek or vice versa.

Talkin about the Bible...why do you have to go so far?

The Quran contains knowledge and theology from many sources.
The numbers were Hindu, Brahmagupta was the first to use the zero. When the Arabs were popularizing them they were beginning to be known in other places. But yes science was advancing in Islam after the darker ages brought on by Rome.
I don't know what you mean about the Bible?

 

[KWED]

I showed you god as the husband, I also showed you the wife, and the children.

It is a repeat of what I've been saying and showing the whole time in this thread.

Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table. Psalm 128:3

The fruitful vine is the grape/wine
The olive plants is the olive/oil

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Corn - Oil - Wine

Are you having issues with comprehending that?

'Fraid so.
You were trying to explain why references to "husband" in the Bible actually mean "god", and I am still none the wiser.

In Corinthians, where it says..."The husband should fulfil his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband", it makes literally no sense if, as you claim, it actually means "God should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to God". Or are you claiming that god has a wife and he must take turns doing the housework?

 

[KWED]

you cannot just pick things out of the Quran and say it means that.

1. Islam urges Muslims to show kindness to parents even if they are non-Muslims.
2. Islam advises Muslims to treat neighbors kindly even if they are not Muslim.
3. Islam encourages Muslims to ensure justice and show kindness to non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims.
4. Islam prohibits killing non-Muslims living under Muslim rule.
5. Islam prohibits wronging a mu‘ahid, (non-Muslim living in a Muslim land)detracting from his rights, or burdening him with more work.
6. Islam prohibits committing transgression and commands justice.

Ironically, all those points require you to cherry-pick passages and ignore contradictory ones. It also requires you to accept one particular scholarly interpretation of a passage and ignore others.