Ask About Islam

[Link]

Forgiveness IS judgment.

Where it's appropriate as a judgement. If we lived evil without repenting, there is no forgiveness.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Where it's appropriate as a judgement. If we lived evil without repenting, there is no forgiveness.

Some say respect is earned.
That doesnt make sense to me to disrespect others until my respect has been earned.

I say my respect is freely given.

But my disrespect is earned.
And it requires payback.

But my forgiveness is also earned in exactly the same way as my disrespect.

 

[KWED]

Perhaps asking questions would be more helpful.

Ok. What are you on about?

Rather than stating that none of it make sense (which in itself is a nonsense response).

Ironically, it is your claim that stating something is nonsense is necessarily a nonsense response, that is a nonsense response. I could give you endless examples of statements to which "none of that makes any sense" would be a perfectly reasonable response.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why is it a hazard?
Why can't we just live and let live!

If someone believes drinking bleach is healthy, people who also believe it will die.

 

[Sheldon]

Rather than stating that none of it make sense (which in itself is a nonsense response).

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Ok. What are you on about?

Ironically, it is your claim that stating something is nonsense is necessarily a nonsense response, that is a nonsense response. I could give you endless examples of statements to which "none of that makes any sense" would be a perfectly reasonable response.

Dont forget that I included the suggestion to ask questions.
So my response was not nonsense because you were able to respond to it according to what I had said.

Because you replied: "Ok. What are you on about?"

For you to just say none of it makes sense is a nonsense response.

It doesnt make any sense to me.




Ironically its like what you said to someone else before:

So just to be clear... if you are in a lecture about Middle Eastern history and a world renowned professor (who is also an atheist) in the subject explains the historical issues around the conquest of Mecca - if the person sitting next to you (who is a Muslim but with no qualifications in Middle Eastern history) says "that's rubbish", you will believe him and reject the professor's lecture?
Really?

Just like saying "thats rubbish" would be a nonsense response.
Its a statement but where is the sense in it? It has none.



Are you able to explain anything about what doesnt make sense to you?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Where it's appropriate as a judgement. If we lived evil without repenting, there is no forgiveness.

Just to be clearer on what I said.

Only when disrespect has been earned the unconditional forgiveness can be learned.

There is another forgiveness. Without the need of repenting/righting a wrong.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Ok. What are you on about?

I'm trying to show the sense in the nonsense.

 

[ppp]

Dont forget that I included the suggestion to ask questions.
So my response was not nonsense because you were able to respond to it according to what I had said.

Because you replied: "Ok. What are you on about?"

There is nothing about your nonsense response that would keep him (or anyone) from replying, "Ok. What are you on about?"

I am the eggman
They are the eggmen
I am the walrus
Goo goo j’goob!

 

[joelr]

Who are they? Names??

Well there are names but all of the leaders assembling propaganda for ISIS. Just the Diwan of Education in ISIL territories alone is using Islamic law and sharia and creating a narrative based on the world coming to an end soon and violence against non-believers.

No Men are men and women are women. We are not to act like each other. We are not to have sexual relations with our own kind. It is forbidden.

Just as it is in the Bible and has been taught in all Abrahamic monotheistic religions. It isn't allowed.

Well there you go. Those are just thoughts of ancient people who didn't know better. But framing them as if they are words given by some God forces people to have to continue to oppress all issues related to those ideas.
Modern people do not care about the sexual preference of others. They do not care who wants to marry who. In OT times marriage was arranged and women were paired up with a man at 12 or 13. That is what marriage was when these books were written but we have completely changed that.
But if people believe the words are divine then they have to continue this bigoted oppressive behavior.
Yet there is no evidence any Gods ever spoke to people, no evidence of any Gods, ever.

 

[joelr]

You must be joking..
What will be will be.

Politics does not require any 'god' or religion.
..but many of us need G-d. There is just too many people in the world who are suffering.
It is not just a matter of population, but more about distribution of wealth.

This is an assumption. When people are sick praying to a deity does not lessen suffering. It may comfort people but without a deity people learn different cooping skills. For centuries the Greeks believed in Gods who effected things on Earth like the rain or crops but they did not believe in an afterlife. There was a saying, something like - "Before I was here, I didn't care. Now I am here. Soon I will die. Again I will not care."
Yes there are political ambitions but when people actually think they have a deity on their side they justify terrible things. Europe has become largely secular, they are doing well.

Those with sound religious knowledge realise that the times we live in are building up to the described apocalypse in book of Revelation. [ Bible ]

eg. when the world becomes ravished by disease, famine and war

It cannot be solved by 'east' nor 'west'. Ideologies that mankind put faith in have no power to save from injustice, except by knolwledge of righteousness.

eg. the sharing of wealth, as opposed to hoarding - creating opportunity for all nations

Now you must be joking. That is the ultimate confirmation bias. During the black plague, 64 million dies, everyone must have been saying "it's the end, definitely the end of the world!". Nope.
WW2, the entire world at war, entire countries being completely bombed, Hitler and Japan taking over the entire world. Definitely the end of days. Nope.
Cold war with Russia, tension between the U.S. and Soviet Union, almost went to war over Cuba, enough nuclear weapons to truly destroy the world, no doubt, this is the end. Nope.
Here you are, picking out some tension between a few countries and Russia invading the Ukraine and confidently announcing it's the end? Will you people ever learn?

Also, Revelations is a copy-cat myth. The Persians were the first to have such a legend. When Persia invaded Israel a few centuries before Christianity many of their myths became incorporated into Christianity.
It's a Persian myth? Read this, sound familiar? It was written around 1600 B.C.

Lester L. Grabbe in 2006 concluded that "there is general agreement that Persian religion and tradition had its influence on Judaism over the centuries"

Revelations (Frashegird) a firey end to all sinners and the devil while all good followers resurrect into an eternal body and live on eternal paradise on Earth.


"but Zoroaster taught that the blessed must wait for this culmination till Frashegird and the 'future body' (Pahlavi 'tan i pasen'), when the earth will give up the bones of the dead (Y 30.7). This general resurrection will be followed by the Last Judgment, which will divide all the righteous from the wicked, both those who have lived until that time and those who have been judged already. Then Airyaman, Yazata of friendship and healing, together with Atar, Fire, will melt all the metal in the mountains, and this will flow in a glowing river over the earth. All mankind must pass through this river, and, as it is said in a Pahlavi text, 'for him who is righteous it will seem like warm milk, and for him who is wicked, it will seem as if he is walking in the • flesh through molten metal' (GBd XXXIV. r 8-r 9). In this great apocalyptic vision Zoroaster perhaps fused, unconsciously, tales of volcanic eruptions and streams of burning lava with his own experience of Iranian ordeals by molten metal; and according to his stern original teaching, strict justice will prevail then, as at each individual j udgment on earth by a fiery ordeal. So at this last ordeal of all the wicked will suffer a second death, and will perish off the face of the earth. The Daevas and legions of darkness will already have been annihilated in a last great battle with the Yazatas; and the river of metal will flow down into hell, slaying Angra Mainyu and burning up the last vestige of wickedness in the universe.

Ahura Mazda and the six Amesha Spentas will then solemnize a lt, spiritual yasna, offering up the last sacrifice (after which death will be no more), and making a preparation of the mystical 'white haoma', which will confer immortality on the resurrected bodies of all the blessed, who will partake of it. Thereafter men will beome like the Immortals themselves, of one thought, word and deed, unaging, free from sickness, without corruption, forever joyful in the kingdom of God upon earth. For it is in this familiar and beloved world, restored to its original perfection, that, according to Zoroaster, eternity will be passed in bliss, and not in a remote insubstantial Paradise. So the time of Separation is a renewal of the time of Creation, except that no return is prophesied to the original uniqueness of living things. Mountain and valley will give place once more to level plain; but whereas in the beginning there was one plant, one animal, one man, the rich variety and number that have since issued from these will remain forever. Similarly the many divinities who were brought into being by Ahura Mazda will continue to have their separate existences. There is no prophecy of their re-absorption into the Godhead. As a Pahlavi text puts it, after Frashegird 'Ohrmaid and the Amahraspands and all Yazads and men will be together. .. ; every place will resemble a garden in spring, in which
there are all kinds of trees and flowers ... and it will be entirely the creation of Ohrrnazd' (Pahl.Riv.Dd. XLVIII, 99, lOO, l07).
Zoroastrians-Their-Religious-Beliefs-and-Practices-MaryBoyce

 

[joelr]

The Quran DOES NOT CONTAIN KNOWLEDGE BUT FROM ONE SOURCE.

I don't care about what you believe I care about what evidence shows. The Quran contains knowledge from Greek science as well as Arab science.

Allah claims the owner of this book himself and no other book on this earth has that claim.

Allah means God. They mean the same God as in the OT. Yahweh. So the OT also makes this claim. There are many claims that Gods dictated messages to people and they wrote them down. None of them are real. All of this was written by people.

Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi is the one who created algebra. Zero was applied and strengthened in the Arab world.

Yes he used Hindu numerals and did some great work in math.

 

[MyM]

Well there are names but all of the leaders assembling propaganda for ISIS. Just the Diwan of Education in ISIL territories alone is using Islamic law and sharia and creating a narrative based on the world coming to an end soon and violence against non-believers.





Well there you go. Those are just thoughts of ancient people who didn't know better. But framing them as if they are words given by some God forces people to have to continue to oppress all issues related to those ideas.
Modern people do not care about the sexual preference of others. They do not care who wants to marry who. In OT times marriage was arranged and women were paired up with a man at 12 or 13. That is what marriage was when these books were written but we have completely changed that.
But if people believe the words are divine then they have to continue this bigoted oppressive behavior.
Yet there is no evidence any Gods ever spoke to people, no evidence of any Gods, ever.

That is your belief and I will not get into a debate with an athiest to prove my belief. You can criticize me all you want. But you will never be able to thwart my belief in Allah.

Allah says in the Quran
“And surely, We have created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”
al-A’raaf 7:179

If you don't believe in God, that is your problem, not ours

 

[MyM]

I don't care about what you believe I care about what evidence shows. The Quran contains knowledge from Greek science as well as Arab science.



Allah means God. They mean the same God as in the OT. Yahweh. So the OT also makes this claim. There are many claims that Gods dictated messages to people and they wrote them down. None of them are real. All of this was written by people.



Yes he used Hindu numerals and did some great work in math.

yada yada yada

The Quran is the book of Allah. He challenges mankind or anyone to come up with a book like it. He challenges you. But he warns you that you will not be able to and will fail and have consequences. If you think you know better, go ahead and try. Book is there. But oh yeah, do you even know arabic? Do you even understand the depth of the grammar used in arabic? hmm for someone to belittle what they don't even know ...tsk

 

[KWED]

Dont forget that I included the suggestion to ask questions.
So my response was not nonsense because you were able to respond to it according to what I had said.

Because you replied: "Ok. What are you on about?"

For you to just say none of it makes sense is a nonsense response.

It doesnt make any sense to me.




Ironically its like what you said to someone else before:



Just like saying "thats rubbish" would be a nonsense response.
Its a statement but where is the sense in it? It has none.



Are you able to explain anything about what doesnt make sense to you?

I didn't say "That's rubbish". I said that I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.
It may indeed have beed rubbish, but the way you explained it was too nonsensical to understand.

Also, simply adding "why don't you ask questions?" to the end of an nonsensical statement doesn't make it make sense.
And asking "what are you on about?" in response to a statement that does not make sense is not a nonsensical response.

Hope this helped.

 

[KWED]

I'm trying to show the sense in the nonsense.

Well, perhaps you need to try a different approach? Simply repeating the same thing doesn't help.

 

[KWED]

What will be will be.

So we don't have the ability to change that?

Politics does not require any 'god' or religion.

No, but many political ideologies have been influenced by religious beliefs.
Also, some political ideologies operate in pretty much the same way as a religion (eg, authoritarian personality cults like the communism of Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, etc, nationalism of Hitler, Mussolini, etc).

but many of us need G-d. There is just too many people in the world who are suffering.

But it is god who is responsible for the suffering in the first place. Classic abusive relationship syndrome.

Those with sound religious knowledge realise that the times we live in are building up to the described apocalypse in book of Revelation. [ Bible ]
eg. when the world becomes ravished by disease, famine and war

Huh? The last few decades have been some of the most peaceful, prosperous, healthy times in recorded history.

Ideologies that mankind put faith in have no power to save from injustice

What do you think "religion" is?

eg. the sharing of wealth, as opposed to hoarding - creating opportunity for all nations

So Liberal Democratic Socialism then? I agree.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..In OT times marriage was arranged and women were paired up with a man at 12 or 13. That is what marriage was when these books were written but we have completely changed that.
But if people believe the words are divine then they have to continue this bigoted oppressive behavior.
Yet there is no evidence any Gods ever spoke to people, no evidence of any Gods, ever.

The Queen of England would disagree with you.

OK .. society has changed over the centuries. It makes no difference.
Basically, what you are saying is that a father shouldn't care who their daughters marry. That does not correlate with human nature.
Whilst young people shouldn't be forced to marry somebody they don't want to marry, there is no harm in wishing their daughters well, and making recommendations. A father has lived a lot longer than their children, and wishes them to have a happy, lasting relationship.
..not easy in these turbulent times, quite clearly.

 

[KWED]

you will never be able to thwart my belief in Allah.

So you are basically stating that you are not interested in evidence or rational argument. You will continue to believe even after there is incontrovertible evidence that your beliefs are false. You will simply ignore the evidence (as you already do).
That is quite an admission.

Allah says in the Quran
“And surely, We have created many of the jinn and mankind for Hell.

So how can you justify punishing those people if Allah created them to be disbelievers in the first place?

They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones”
al-A’raaf 7:179

But that's how Allah created them. And then he punishes them for acting in the only way they can act. This proves that:
1. They have no free will in the matter of belief.
2. Allah is neither just nor merciful towards them.

If you don't believe in God, that is your problem, not ours

Really not sure how you can worship or even respect such a person, even if they did exist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Now you must be joking. That is the ultimate confirmation bias. During the black plague, 64 million dies, everyone must have been saying "it's the end, definitely the end of the world!". Nope.
WW2, the entire world at war, entire countries being completely bombed, Hitler and Japan taking over the entire world. Definitely the end of days. Nope.

You need to look at all these metioned events in a relative context.
For 1000's of years, mankind lived a relatively simple life, with all nations having an "agricultural economy".
It is the aftermath of the Reformation in Europe i.e. the emergence of widespread financial institutions and the industrial revolution, that has massively accelerated the imbalance in the world that ends with climate-change, wars etc.

You can deny it as much as you like .. that won't change anything for the better.