Ask Zardoz Anything...

[Zardoz]

...Why do you say there will be another one of them before the Messiah shows up?

This is what I've been taught from of old...

'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph'

Messiah ben Joseph is the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, and the key to understanding Yeshua and the Age we live in. This Age has not yet run it's course.

...I am confused because isnt the antichrist suposed to rule the world? The false prophet that is suposed to have a peace pact or something with the Jews and then he betrays them?...

I have found it's very difficult to explain the antichrist with people who are thinking of the Christian version of the antichrist. The problem is Jews and Christians use the same terminology but the meanings are vastly different. Take Ha Satan for example. Christianity almost universally views Satan as a fallen angel in rebellion against G-d and almost set up as an anti-god. This is not how most Jews view Ha Satan. In our view, there never was a rebellion of angels, they don't have free will and therefore can't rebel. There are such things as demons, but these are not fallen angels. Ha Satan is an angel that is given the task to maintain human freedom of choice, and that is all. Now, you may be wondering why I bring this up? In Christianity, the antichrist is almost always presented as an agent of the Christian devil. This is NOT the meaning of the term, in my view. So, if the antichrist is not the agent of the devil, who then? Well, none other than the anti-Jew, Esau. Therefore the antichrist is better thought of as the anti-Jew rather than any satanic figure. The antichrist already rules the world, don't you know? However, no need to panic, the so-called book of Revelations is just nonsense.

 

[David69]

This is what I've been taught from of old...

'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph'

Messiah ben Joseph is the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, and the key to understanding Yeshua and the Age we live in. This Age has not yet run it's course.



I have found it's very difficult to explain the antichrist with people who are thinking of the Christian version of the antichrist. The problem is Jews and Christians use the same terminology but the meanings are vastly different. Take Ha Satan for example. Christianity almost universally views Satan as a fallen angel in rebellion against G-d and almost set up as an anti-god. This is not how most Jews view Ha Satan. In our view, there never was a rebellion of angels, they don't have free will and therefore can't rebel. There are such things as demons, but these are not fallen angels. Therefore the antichrist is better thought of as the anti-Jew rather than any satanic figure. The antichrist already rules the world, don't you know? However, no neeHa Satan is an angel that is given the task to maintain human freedom of choice, and that is all. Now, you may be wondering why I bring this up? In Christianity, the antichrist is almost always presented as an agent of the Christian devil. This is NOT the meaning of the term, in my view. So, if the antichrist is not the agent of the devil, who then? Well, none other than the anti-Jew, Esau. d to panic, the so-called book of Revelations is just nonsense.

'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph'
Messiah ben Joseph is the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, and the key to understanding Yeshua and the Age we live in. This Age has not yet run it's course.

Sorry I dont understand! or do I! Ben David and ben Joseph are still to come?
First Ben and then David? I understand that the age hasnt run its course. And when it has IMO It will only be the end of an age... A new beginning/Age.
I need to read up on ben David and ben Joseph. I have heard there names in forums but I thought these were kings of old!!! erm... Who is Isaiah53?

I have found it's very difficult to explain the antichrist with people who are thinking of the Christian version of the antichrist. The problem is Jews and Christians use the same terminology but the meanings are vastly different.

I am very pleased to read this statement!! I thought that I was going mad
Its the Christians that are messing my personal beleifs up, in some reguards, especially as far as the so called anti-christ goes! But in others they fit in to my beleifs nicely! (but saying that, I dont know that much about Religion let alone all the different groups. But thats why I am hear. To learn and make my own mind up.

In our view, there never was a rebellion of angels, they don't have free will and therefore can't rebel. There are such things as demons, but these are not fallen angels.

It never made sense to me either! not from my personal thoughts dreams and strange happenings etc. But my version may not be music to your ears either lol.
You know who I claim to be yes! Well that Is why I am trying to get to the truth and understand who I am. But it confuses me when People describe the anti christ and Messiah as two beings that are waging war against each other! But it is hard for them to understand and grasp that the so called anti christ and the messiah are two sides to one being! IMHO. The Religious Jews (not sure what to call them) will never ever see that, or that God/yahweh is anything but ONE! If we are made in Gods image etc... how comes there is only one side to him? This cannot be true surely because in one breath he is loving and caring etc and in the next he is having people stoned to death etc for things that is considered evil or wacky by todays standards.
like stoning to death married woman that look at other men. comitting adultry, for stealing, for recognising anyother god or religion etc... I dont know man...
So if this is one side to him, I am very confuses.

Therefore the antichrist is better thought of as the anti-Jew rather than any satanic figure. The antichrist already rules the world, don't you know? However, no neeHa Satan is an angel that is given the task to maintain human freedom of choice, and that is all. Now, you may be wondering why I bring this up? In Christianity, the antichrist is almost always presented as an agent of the Christian devil. This is NOT the meaning of the term, in my view. So, if the antichrist is not the agent of the devil, who then? Well, none other than the anti-Jew, Esau.

Awww man, I dont know... Before I even go into "anti-Jew" I want to explain mention my own beleif... just by me being the so called anti-christ come messiah... Just humour me please...
Supose that lucifers chosen one and Jesus Angel (Say the real Messiah) are two parts of one. And this Being came to earth in 69... brand new and void of any Religion!
He sees and hears of Men from all over the world fighting and massacreing each other and they all have the one God behind them. He sees the world as evil! a cold nasty evil place! He realises that this evil is called religion! over time he sees things for what they are and he himself changes his veiws by Something, somethings that let him see and see and see again and again until only the truth is left. (40 yr story lol) He once hated the Jews because they were hated by the world. He hated Jesus because to him, jesus represented all this evil. He was ant- christ, anti Jew, anti murderers, anti-Rapists, anti-molesterers of children, anti- woman opressors of women, anti-governments and anti- all that represented evil in the world to him.
From his birth strange things happened. He would see and hear things. He would be followed around by evil looking beings that would scare him. when he was eleven, he got a visit that was well witnessed but from that night he didnt see this evil person manifest to him in the flesh.... but he would feel its presense for every single night for ten whole years! This now invisible force would strangle him and clutch at his heart. As a young man he was getting signs by the unknown and by people that would do and say things to him that was out of there own charactor but he knew and understood. He fought and won this evil being. Then this older nicer wiser person started to appeer. At first David didnt understand these apeerences. He thought that this person wanted to get a life! But later on in his own life he realised the importance of his own thoughts and also realised that this evil entity was just some part of himself, reaching out for recognition and acceptence!!! All the time he had been guided by a part of him that was letting him see for himself the truth and all of this had to happen or he would never have come to the truth.
He recognised and accepted and embraced these sides to him!!!
So he turned to the Occult and Religious veiws to try and learn more. he even went to his doctor (so happened to be a Orthodox Jew) and told him who he is. He stood infront of health proffecionalls and psycologists and explained the same. There medications to stop him hearing and seeing things that arnt there didnt work and they are ingreuged and fascinated by him etc... They have witnessed some unexplained happenings first hand that he mentioned. He calles himself a subconscious communicator that brings people to him, together and eventually the whole world....
He now feels for the Jews, for Jesus for his lambs,and for the whole world. But he is good to the good but there is also a lot of evil to wrid the world of evil and he knows that it doesnt have to be the fall of Religion but the fall of the evil within that manipulates it.
The anti christ IMO was before he seen the light!!! (L)
So yes, I understand that the devil rules the world. For now! But that is not Lucifer IMHO. It is the dark side of human nature!

the so-called book of Revelations is just nonsense

Theres other books that are also nonsense to the once that depict God as evil.
I doubt that he would cause people to kill people, brother against brother for not beleiving etc... cant think of the book but it is an old bible!!!
We must move on, out of the dark ages and into the light IMO.
---------
Thanks Zardoz, Since speaking with you I have learned alot of myself. Its along story but I know that I am on track and I thank God for sending you
So it is the Messianic Religion that I am going to pay attention to now. Ive been looking for this all my life.
I will have to explain further but not now as I do have a life too lol.
Thanks and please try not to be offended by my words as that is not my intent

 

[Zardoz]

Sorry I dont understand! or do I! Ben David and ben Joseph are still to come?
First Ben and then David? I understand that the age hasnt run its course. And when it has IMO It will only be the end of an age... A new beginning/Age.
I need to read up on ben David and ben Joseph. I have heard there names in forums but I thought these were kings of old!!! erm... Who is Isaiah53?...

I'm going to have to address your questions one group at a time, if you don't mind. It's a lot to cover.

What I meant by 'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph' is that there are actually two different Messianic figures. The Davidic Messiah is the one most people think of when they think of Messiah, he brings peace and is the leader who begins the Messianic age of peace. However, before he comes to bring this Age of peace, the existing Age is known as Messiah ben Joseph. Yeshua was Messiah ben Joseph who began this Age of Messiah ben Joseph, and soon (I hope) he will return and the Age will reach it's conclusion. (There is a possibility that another man will fill this role, I'm not 100% sure on this issue) Then after the climax of the current Age, Messiah ben David leads us into the NEW Age.

Here's the wiki on Messiah ben Joseph. I'm afraid a lot is missing, but you'll get the basic idea:

Messiah ben Joseph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, to understand Yeshua, two things are helpful. First, it's a good idea to read the story of Joseph in Genesis (a lot more clear if you read a Jewish version with commentaries). Secondly is to read the 53rd chapter of the book of the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 53 - Passage*Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com


Hope that helps, let me know if you have any questions on this then I can move on to the other issues. After Shabbat that is...

....but...

There isn't just a figurehead, the Messiah; or just an Age; there is also a people...
All three are equally Messiah. More on that later...

Shalom

 

[S-word]

For all you Messianic Jews who lurk here, unposting and silent. Ask me anything, and I will answer as best I can. (No one other than MJ, plz, this is a DIR)

Who was the first Jew to be elected to the Episcopal throne of the Messianic church of Christ, and when and by whom was he succeeded?

 

[David69]

I'm going to have to address your questions one group at a time, if you don't mind. It's a lot to cover.

What I meant by 'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph' is that there are actually two different Messianic figures. The Davidic Messiah is the one most people think of when they think of Messiah, he brings peace and is the leader who begins the Messianic age of peace. However, before he comes to bring this Age of peace, the existing Age is known as Messiah ben Joseph. Yeshua was Messiah ben Joseph who began this Age of Messiah ben Joseph, and soon (I hope) he will return and the Age will reach it's conclusion. (There is a possibility that another man will fill this role, I'm not 100% sure on this issue) Then after the climax of the current Age, Messiah ben David leads us into the NEW Age.

I read about Joseph... it reminds me that I have indeed heard of him through song and on tv...
Joseph and his dream coat!!! Wow Ardoz, This is getting me places...
I said I have to explain the things that you have taught me already to do with things that are relivent to me...
( I have mentioned this in my thread)
When I was about 5yrs old or so, I came out of a dream whilst sitting in the middle of the floor. I said to my Mother : Ma, when I get older I am going to live in high places and drink wine!!!
Years later when I was forced to speak to my Doctor (GP) of my issues, he diagnosed me with psychosis on the base of one true story about a man dressed like some old wizard standing outside a store. The Doc (Orthodox Jew) asked me what he looked like and I told him.
But this strange man I now beleive to be God had a strange long stick and the only thing that came to my mind was that it was somekind of vine,(like to peaces twisted around each other!) which I related to wine!! So I thought that this vine would appeer to me in my dreamland! It never did... yet... Now bare with me because if I am right then you may recognise my sacred place! and beable to understand my journey!!!
The Doctor knows that I have some "abilitys" and I told him that I havent psycosis and usually when I "see", others do too but it was like nobody seen this person but when I wound the window down on the car and pointed at him and told him to "get a life"... every one seamed to stop and look at me! I realised later that it was meant for me only and I know why I said what I did. He did get a life... he was part of me and he was guiding me.
So thanks to you, I tapped in a search... Messianic Religion and something stood out... Vine of David!!! But I already new my roots through years of visions and by my quest to learn of the self!
"I send forth my Angel to testify...I am the Root of David- we are one!" I know this has different meanings to others, like the meaning of Peter being reborn with Jesus is like jesus was teaching Peter for denying him but to me He was going to be re-born on earth with him!!! my brother is Peter born 26.12.66, followed right after Jesus, albeit 2000 or so yrs later but... I am David.
Anyways I understand now, the wine but theres trees mentioned too that peaked my interest...
I think it was the fig tree and erm... I cant remember the other lol but they are important to me now!
Now getting back to Joseph... I didnt understand about the foul and the lambs or stock that were changed etc but the story of the well and the dreamer are relevent to me in a big way. I wonder in dream ,if Joseph often went back to the well to find himself and get answers etc!!! Its also apart of my dream land and visions! Next to the fountain (made up of parts of me) there is a well below my tree of knowledge where leaves fall from it three at a time! A while back I roughly wrote about it, I think in my "the real Messiah thread" anyways I was pondering the relivency of the leaves falling three at a time from the tree because of a orange/red number three hanging on a branch directly above the well. I floated up to the branch and I lowered myself over the branch and I was just above the well and I looked and realised that the three had been upside down and now it appered as it should be. I heard a voice from above " It is not I that is upside down"! when the ripples in the well settled I noticed this person hanging from the tree he was dressed like the jester (a day later I seen the hangedman card off tarot for the first time!!!) costume and he was like another version of myself.
I realised through many flashes that came in threes after every question I asked myself, that it was just a matter of turning something upside down to see the truth!!! The coat I was wearing from the tree was only red and blue but I am begining to understand more regardless of colour.
I used to drop head first into that well from the branch as a boy to try and go deeper and further to see wher the well would lead me! but it branched out in many directions but I used to like the place... a oasis where this big salmon would leap and infront was just one lonely pyramid. on the shore was a man on a camel, dressed in white and gold. I used to take people to see him untill I realised who he was... That was very scary!!! anyways I am Rambling on again.
I now relate the well and it leads to many places and some places that I dont know but I feel that it leads to some holyland that will be relivent to me in a big way! IMO

So Joseph, was betrade by his own brothers like Jesus was betrade by his own kind/brothers... maybe. Joseph went to Egypt and was good at dream interpratation... I bet he is from a line of subconscious communicators? I have those powers of communication but just in this old daftys opinion ofcource.
I was curious to that name I searched (anti Jew) wow, I loved that story and will read it again and maybe again to see where my mind takes me. But it was a bit confusing. Twins... deceipt...
I think its going to all come together!
Thanks... I will have to collect my thoughts before asking questions! Also I have to feed the kids
Thanks Zardoz!
David69

 

[David69]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_was_the_prophet_Isaiah

I was thinking that you mentioned Isaiah for some relivence to my path... errrm, I thought that maybe this prophet was before jesus time and when I read the part that you sugested I read...
It is about Jesus right? So I searched the prophet...

Isaiah was a prophet in the Old Testament. He was born about 775 BC. He began his ministry in 740 BC. He was the prophet in the South Kingdom of Judah. He was the prophet during the reign of 4 kings. Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah. He was married and had two sons. Tradition says he was of royal descent.

He was an intellectual, a literacy genius, and a poet. 80% percent of Isaiah's prophecies are written in prose. He uses complicated symbolism and imagery. They say that Isaiah is to Hebrew what Shakespeare is to English. Isaiah uses his amazing literary skills to make great prophecies about the future. Isaiah's prophecies can be difficult to understand and many believe that Isaiah meant his writings to be complicated so that the could only be understood by the Spirit. Isaiah is the most quoted prophet in modern and ancient scripture. Even Jesus Christ quoted Isaiah. The Savior paid the ultimate compliment when he said 'Great are the words of Isaiah'. Isaiah died in 701. Tradition says he was martyred. He was encased in a tree and 'sawed asunder'.
-------------
So he writes for the chosen one! I look forward to those codes. I am going to read up on this prophets wisdom!
Give me a bit time to collect my thoughts because I havent finished replying to your last post Zardoz, I have much to say! and much to ask Thank you for you r patience and help!

 

[Zardoz]

Who was the first Jew to be elected to the Episcopal throne of the Messianic church of Christ, and when and by whom was he succeeded?

Um... no idea? What is a 'Episcopal throne', is that a reference to the progressive Episcopal Protestant sect? Similarly, the phrase 'Messianic church of Christ' is unknown to me, Messianic Jews do not use the terms 'church' or 'Christ'.

 

[Zardoz]

...I think it was the fig tree and erm... I cant remember the other lol but they are important to me now!...

Every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid

Funny thing about the vine and wine... humor me here a bit.

Western art often depicts the apple as the 'forbidden fruit' in Eden.

Bzzzzzt! Wrong!

It was the grape. See, wine has a special place in Jewish rituals, most notably Kiddush:

Kiddush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The grape vine was to be reserved for the great Shabbat, when G-d rested from the work of creation, but the humans 'jumped the gun' so to speak. It's no surprise to Jews that when the world is once again reduced to one man, (Noah) and his family the first thing he does is build a vineyard! Why? ... to rectify the failure of Adam! Only, he also fails...

Something to think about.

Now getting back to Joseph... I didnt understand about the foul and the lambs or stock that were changed etc

Please give me chapter and verse of what you have problems with, David.

 

[S-word]

Um... no idea? What is a 'Episcopal throne', is that a reference to the progressive Episcopal Protestant sect? Similarly, the phrase 'Messianic church of Christ' is unknown to me, Messianic Jews do not use the terms 'church' or 'Christ'.

You know what the question was, but you must play your silly little games. So then, let me put it in terminology that you might be able to comprehend. "Who was the first to be elected to the Apostolic throne of the church of the circumcision in Jerusalem, and when was he succeeded and by whom was he succeeded? Hows that?

What is a 'Episcopal throne', Pertaining to the seat of the Bishop elected to govern the church of the Messiniac Jews in Jerusalem, who remained true to the Law of the circumcision.

 

[Zardoz]

...Bishop elected to govern the church...

Ah! I see... you don't really have a question, what you have is an agenda.

Off you go, this DIR is not for your debates.

 

[MSizer]

Does it essentially mean to be a Messianic Jew that you live culturally as a Jewish person, but you accept the divinity of Christ? Or am I way off base?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Does it essentially mean to be a Messianic Jew that you live culturally as a Jewish person, but you accept the divinity of Christ? Or am I way off base?

way off base....

most "messy jews" a they are effectionatly known by some other jews...
do not accept "Jesus" as the Messiah...

there are actually many messiahs in Judaism of course

 

[Zardoz]

Does it essentially mean to be a Messianic Jew that you live culturally as a Jewish person, but you accept the divinity of Christ? Or am I way off base?

Sadly, there are a lot who are like this, and they give all of us a bad name in the Jewish community. Obviously, I'm not. I'm a committed Jew, who lives as much in line with tradition as possible in today's world. Accepting the 'divinity of Christ' may be permissible for Non-Jews, but a Jew is commanded in the Torah to not have any god other than HaShem, absolute monotheism.

I follow the teachings of Yeshua, most notably the ones found in The Sermon on the Mount, which help me be the best Jew that I can be. I do not worship Yeshua, I am not a Christian, but I have no problem with Non-Jews that do.

As to the Messiah-ship of Yeshua, that's a bit more complicated, but as Mr. Cheese correctly points out, there are many Messiahs in Judaism.

 

[David69]

Every man will sit under his own vine and under his own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid

Funny thing about the vine and wine... humor me here a bit.

Western art often depicts the apple as the 'forbidden fruit' in Eden.

Bzzzzzt! Wrong!

It was the grape. See, wine has a special place in Jewish rituals, most notably Kiddush:

Kiddush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The grape vine was to be reserved for the great Shabbat, when G-d rested from the work of creation, but the humans 'jumped the gun' so to speak. It's no surprise to Jews that when the world is once again reduced to one man, (Noah) and his family the first thing he does is build a vineyard! Why? ... to rectify the failure of Adam! Only, he also fails...

Something to think about.

Please give me chapter and verse of what you have problems with, David.

Ive tried for over 2hrs to find the story, I cant remember what I searched to find it... Joseph I think but he was just mentioned once in the story. it was hard to understand because of the tounge it was spoke with... The story was of someone who worked on a farm without payment (because of some punishment I think) and foul and sheep were marked so if anyone was found with these animal with marks, then they would be stolen etc... cant remember.. I thought that I had added to favourites but didnt! Maybe something to do with the twins or the farther! not sure.

Funny thing about the vine and wine... humor me here a bit.

Thanks for the info, I agree... In my dreamland/sacred place.. I havent seen one apple tree there!!! I look for this vine because I beleive that when all knowledge is gained, I will climb/rise to that most high place! When the vine apperes. There will be a union of spirit/essence etc and we will sit in this most high place "as one" and drink wine!
I understand now that Joseph: Tradition says he was martyred. He was encased in a tree and 'sawed asunder'., He is a dreamer, a subconscious communicator and he belonges to that tree, over the well! he seen jacobs ladder in dream... simular to my vine... maybe! When all my storys comes together the "coinserdence thing " is just to unreal to be coinserdence. btw what does 'sawed asunder mean"?

Those many flashes I got seemed like ages but I was smoking a cigerette and went into dream/transe and what I seen and understand, blew me away... but flashes kept coming again and again until I understood them.
In this tree IMO leads to this castle dungeon wher my HS/real me resides.
It was a empty stone room with a big wooden chair/throne and I seen myself as a boy sitting there and a familua person standing behind (that evil looking entity that haunted me for years... turned out to be me when I was older... v long story)
I floated to the man that stood behind the child and I went into him and I pulled the childs head back and with a black talon type nail I etched into his head "999"
and then I was back sitting at the fountain, before the tree! well I told you what happened next. But the light of it is... to do with my identity... That chosen one of Lucifer, that Angel of Jesus! IMO The mark of me is that secret code!!! my birthright! no scholar of Ages realised that it is the chosen ones birth details that is the key!!!
"I send forth my Angel to testifie...I am the Root of David... we are one!"~ Yeshua!... I know what it all means... to me, anyways

Christmas just gone, I pondered the new years eve and christmas before. 333 am I woke up after considering Jesus for the first time! It was my brothers birthday (333 is significant to me in a big way, btw)... I was near choking my mouth was dry as a bone and I tried sucking this crap off from the roof of my mouth as I was gagging!
I made my way to the kitchen sink and I spat out two mouth fulls of blood. I went back to the sitting room and looked in the mirror and seen that my tonsells were badly swolen... that must of been the crap that was stuck to the roof of my mouth (tonsels) I looked at the time, it was 3:37, thats when I realised that I woke up at 333 and that this was a sign of rellivence to me. The night before while relating the death of a someone that lived in my old house to the birth date of my sister 333 days between! asnd it lead me to working out a connection to yeshua, by the threes and my DOB... but as I worked out the maths, I realised that jesus was 30 when he died but I had a problem with it because it didnt make sence. for me to relate myself as ofspring of Yeshua he would of had to die when he was 30 but I couldnt understand why he was not "33"! Later I came across scripture that states that ayeshua was 33 when he died... wow, the releif was a weight of my shoulders and conscience.. because it just didnt make sense otherwise. Like a sledge hammer,it hit me.. ovcourse... He was 30 when he bared fruit! when that vine was planted IMO. He left the most northen horn to face his own known destiny...
Hope that shead a bit light on the vine and wine

So Christmas just gone, just before midnight I opened a bottle of wine and shared thoughts with Yeshua and then with by brother after midnight! His birthday!
And I fell asleep and dreampt of that man with the stick. He had been looking up into the heavens and then looked at me and smiled and I smiled back and nodded to him, then he looked back up and then vanished. I was back on roof of the flats.
I looked down to see a boy who looked up at me and we smiled and nodded and a tear rolled down my face.
For years since I was 11, I dreamped of this scenario. It was the place where I would try and learn to control flight instead of just falling ! I learned to love and crave that falling feeling as a long lost friend. For real, that man with a stick who manifested in the real world at that location and he was looking up! I fully understand it all now.
Its all a very long story! when I was 12yo, I wanted to write a book called "strange happenings" I had wrote my stories and my thoughts but that book like a one I done a few years back got lost in the making! *sighs* Thats how I do it! Just write of my experiences!!!... Ranbling again eh, lol.

Im finding it confusing Zardoz... the messiah is from the line of Joseph! But I hear Joseph is fron the Davidic line?? I only associated the Davidic line because I am called David but the Joseph story resinates with me in a big way now.. thanks to you!
I will soon copy passages from scripture that "I see" is relivent to me! from isaiah!
Isaiah's prophecies can be difficult to understand and many believe that Isaiah meant his writings to be complicated so that the could only be understood by the Spirit!!
for me, I get the drift but it is confusing as to who is speaking... I will come over better with questions, after!

Did you ever feel like you were chosen by God for a purpose?
Thanks
David.

 

[Zardoz]

Ive tried for over 2hrs to find the story, I cant remember what I searched to find it...

After reading your descriptions again, I think it may be Jacob when he was in the house of Leban, that you read about.

Im finding it confusing Zardoz... the messiah is from the line of Joseph! But I hear Joseph is fron the Davidic line?? I only associated the Davidic line because I am called David but the Joseph story resinates with me in a big way now.. thanks to you!

Two Messiahs. 'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph.'
Not necessarily only blood descendants, but possibly spiritual descendants, IMHO.

Did you ever feel like you were chosen by God for a purpose?

All of us have a purpose in G-d's plan, David.

 

[David69]

After reading your descriptions again, I think it may be Jacob when he was in the house of Leban, that you read about.


Two Messiahs. 'Before Messiah ben David, there is Messiah ben Joseph.'
Not necessarily only blood descendants, but possibly spiritual descendants, IMHO.


All of us have a purpose in G-d's plan, David.

I'll catch up on that Jacob story when I get spare time. also the twins etc.

Not necessarily only blood descendants, but possibly spiritual descendants, IMHO.

I was hopeing you would say that ... IMO Ben Joseph and Ben David will be a result of the two spirits uniting... for a reason only God knows... would it make sence and what would be the lesson to the masses? Ive beleived for a long time now that the messiah is two parts of one... the same, but people will know two people before they see the light, so to speak! I bet the world that he is one!

What are the messianic predictions of David?
where will he come from? will he be Religious?
how will he be brought up?
Will the evil beings that he destroys, see him as the Devil?
any knowledge will be apreciated and I know that some knowledge is kep secret etc.

When the masses recognise him, (including those under the evil manipulators spell)
Will they accept him as there king/ruler?
If so who will do the manipulators (wolves in sheeps clothing) bidding??personally, I dont think they will have a leg to stand on. JMO
IMO the end times is the end of the evil manipulators of Religion and of the words of God the Father and it will be the beginning of a new age and not the end of the world as many beleive! I beleive the new age to be the age of light! JMO

All of us have a purpose in G-d's plan, David

I agree very much... but you dont want to say if and how you recognised your part in it then

I am wanting to buy some vine of David t shirts from that site! do you know if it is a genuine messianic site? (Vine of David?)
I am off to heal a relative of my brothers girlfriend soon. They are experiencing Demons and heavy activety etc... It amazes and saddens me how they associate these happenings with devils and demons etc... But They will see the light! IMO

Thanks for your wisdom and sharing it with me... you are a big help...
Power to your dreams
David.

 

[David69]

Take your time Zardoz?

 

[Zardoz]

Take your time Zardoz?

That's a lot of questions, and I've not had a lot of time to post lately, only have time to make one-two posts.
No, I haven't forgotten, I just need a longer stretch of online-time to tackle them.

If you have one or two questions you'd like me to address right away, feel free to list them.

 

[David Ben Yosef]

I have a few questions, but they are all related. You said earlier in this thread that Yeshua is not the son of G-d. Why is that?

Wouldn't you have to reject much of the Brit Chadasha to believe that?

Do you believe G-d has sons and daughters who are not deity?

If so, then why couldn't Yeshua have been a son of G-d?


Shalom

 

[Zardoz]

I have a few questions, but they are all related. You said earlier in this thread that Yeshua is not the son of G-d. Why is that?

Wouldn't you have to reject much of the Brit Chadasha to believe that?

Do you believe G-d has sons and daughters who are not deity?

If so, then why couldn't Yeshua have been a son of G-d?


Shalom

Excellent question!

In the Brit Chadasha we see the terms Son of Man and Son of G-d quite a few times. The term Son of Man is most plainly translated as 'Human' or 'Humanity' and first appears in Gen. 13.16:

ואשגה זרעך כעפר ארשא די לא ישכח בר אנוש לממדיה
And I will multiply your seed like the dirt of the earth which no son of man (בר אנוש : [bar 'anowsh]) can count.

However, the term Son of G-d has special messianic connotations, as seen in Psalms 2:

א לָמָּה, רָגְשׁוּ גוֹיִם; וּלְאֻמִּים, יֶהְגּוּ-רִיק.
ב יִתְיַצְּבוּ, מַלְכֵי-אֶרֶץ-- וְרוֹזְנִים נוֹסְדוּ-יָחַד:
עַל-יְהוָה, וְעַל-מְשִׁיחוֹ. ג נְנַתְּקָה, אֶת-מוֹסְרוֹתֵימוֹ; וְנַשְׁלִיכָה מִמֶּנּוּ עֲבֹתֵימוֹ.
ד יוֹשֵׁב בַּשָּׁמַיִם יִשְׂחָק: אֲדֹנָי, יִלְעַג-לָמוֹ.
ה אָז יְדַבֵּר אֵלֵימוֹ בְאַפּוֹ; וּבַחֲרוֹנוֹ יְבַהֲלֵמוֹ.
ו וַאֲנִי, נָסַכְתִּי מַלְכִּי: עַל-צִיּוֹן, הַר-קָדְשִׁי.
ז אֲסַפְּרָה, אֶל-חֹק: יְהוָה, אָמַר אֵלַי בְּנִי אַתָּה--אֲנִי, הַיּוֹם יְלִדְתִּיךָ.
ח שְׁאַל מִמֶּנִּי--וְאֶתְּנָה גוֹיִם, נַחֲלָתֶךָ; וַאֲחֻזָּתְךָ, אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ.
ט תְּרֹעֵם, בְּשֵׁבֶט בַּרְזֶל: כִּכְלִי יוֹצֵר תְּנַפְּצֵם.
י וְעַתָּה, מְלָכִים הַשְׂכִּילוּ; הִוָּסְרוּ, שֹׁפְטֵי אָרֶץ.
יא עִבְדוּ אֶת-יְהוָה בְּיִרְאָה; וְגִילוּ, בִּרְעָדָה.
יב נַשְּׁקוּ-בַר, פֶּן-יֶאֱנַף וְתֹאבְדוּ דֶרֶךְ-- כִּי-יִבְעַר כִּמְעַט אַפּוֹ: אַשְׁרֵי, כָּל-חוֹסֵי בוֹ.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rules take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed , saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Both these attributes are true of Yeshua, Son of Man and Son of G-d, but neither is justification for the trinitarian theology, which claims Yeshua is a part of G-d and/or physically begotten of G-d. Greek and Roman gods procreate with humans, and that is where this concept originates, but the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob does not have a body or have relations with humans especially not a virgin who is betrothed to man! G-d's Torah says quite clearly that a betrothed woman is sanctified to the man, surely G-d would not violate Torah! No, the Immaculate Conception is real, but not the encroachment on Joseph that it seems in Christian accounts. The real truth of this I will not post here, only discuss by PMs.

So, yes to Son of Man and yes to Son of G-d but a resounding NO to the trinity or any claim of divinity of Yeshua.

The Brit Chadasha has been in Gentile hands, and it's always the case that the winners write the the history books. The Gentile 'church' were the winners and the Jewish followers of Yeshua were the losers, so I hold each and every part of the Brit Chadasha with suspicion. Only that which rings true to Torah is what I accept. So far, the Sermon on the Mount is known true and 'Revelations' is known false.

Shalom