Atheism as a Belief

[Alceste]

I've seen many atheists admit that God could be real. How is it not a belief system when he could be real.

MF, I know "possible", "plausible", "probable" and "provable" all look and sound very similar, but they all have completely different meanings.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

MF, I know "possible", "plausible", "probable" and "provable" all look and sound very similar, but they all have completely different meanings.

I like your Jellyfish the best by the way

 

[gnostophiliac]

Agnostic means they do not think a god is knowable, atheism is the disbelief in a god.

... or perhaps, since we can only positively know the thoughts that are in our own heads 'Atheism is the certain belief that no god exists.'

 

[Alceste]

I like your Jellyfish the best by the way

Why, thank you. * preen *

 

[Tristesse]

... or perhaps, since we can only positively know the thoughts that are in our own heads 'Atheism is the certain belief that no god exists.'

It's not though, atheists don't believe in a god. Most of them would say they aren't 100% certain there isn't a god.

 

[gnostophiliac]

It's not though, atheists don't believe in a god. Most of them would say they aren't 100% certain there isn't a god.

But theists and atheists alike believe they are probably right about their views. The only clear way to have no belief of any kind, including a belief that there are no gods, is to have no understanding and no thought. It's not the 'belief in god' or otherwise that gets me, it the expression certainty without presentable evidence.

 

[Humanistheart]

But theists and atheists alike believe they are probably right about their views. The only clear way to have no belief of any kind, including a belief that there are no gods, is to have no understanding and no thought. It's not the 'belief in god' or otherwise that gets me, it the expression certainty without presentable evidence.

I don't think you quite understand the burden of proof.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not the 'belief in god' or otherwise that gets me, it the expression certainty without presentable evidence.

I've known very few atheists who hold that position.

 

[gnomon]

So what I want to know is this.

Which is more tiresome? The assertion that atheist is a belief or the question as to whether or not I'm Jewish?

 

[LittleNipper]

Give one example of an athiest ideolgoy, and tell us how it's been pushed into the public education 'arena' as you say.

We are the result of natural selection ----- the existance of the entire universe is the result of natural processes (even though this cannot be demonstrated).

 

[Humanistheart]

We are the result of natural selection ----- the existance of the entire universe is the result of natural processes (even though this cannot be demonstrated).

I asked you to give an example of athiest ideals being forced into school. What you're describing is SCIENCE, which is in fact based on testable and or observable processes. Care to try again? Give me one athiest ideal forced into the classroom.

 

[Alceste]

I asked you to give an example of athiest ideals being forced into school. What you're describing is SCIENCE, which is in fact based on testable and or observable processes. Care to try again? Give me one athiest ideal forced into the classroom.

Also I would point out to LippyNipper that outside his little cult and a few similar cults, a great many religious people (almost all of those who have received an education) accept the theory of evolution - so he can't blame the fact it is taught in school on us atheists.

 

[Humanistheart]

Also I would point out to LippyNipper that outside his little cult and a few similar cults, a great many religious people (almost all of those who have received an education) accept the theory of evolution - so he can't blame the fact it is taught in school on us atheists.

True, even the sluggish bohemeth that is the catholic church finally got on board.

 

[MountainHumanist]

The only logical position, if you take out faith is agnostism. There is no proof there is no God.

Fill in the blank:

There is no proof there is no __(invisible, flying dragon in my garage)____

There is no proof there are no __gnomes____

There is no proof there are no __Vogons Reading Awful Poetry____

Perhaps this would be an appropriate time to bring our the Russell's Teapot analogy.

To wit:

In an article entitled "Is There a God?", commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.​

 

[MountainHumanist]

I've seen many atheists admit that God could be real. How is it not a belief system when he could be real.

Again, fill in the blank:

I've seen many (non-UFOists) admit that (extraterrestrials) could be real. How is it not a belief system when (they) could be real. (A-Alienists?)

I've seen many (naturalistic thinkers) admit that (fairies) could be real. How is it not a belief system when (they) could be real. (A-fairyists?)

 

[MountainHumanist]

You know..I find a lot of these threads are simply the same debates dressed in different clothing? Anyone else notice that?

 

[Cobblestones]

I have never understood how non-belief could be classified as a belief any more than lack of any evidence is used to support an irrational notion (e.g. "you can't prove that there's no god").

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You know..I find a lot of these threads are simply the same debates dressed in different clothing? Anyone else notice that?

Yes almost like the staff needs to round them up and put them in a safe place..

 

[Mr Cheese]

Fill in the blank:

There is no proof there is no __(invisible, flying dragon in my garage)____

There is no proof there are no __gnomes____

There is no proof there are no __Vogons Reading Awful Poetry____

Perhaps this would be an appropriate time to bring our the Russell's Teapot analogy.

To wit:

the tea pot anaolgy is funny
the difference is, people would need to interact with the tea pot in some way
to make it comparable to God....
Otherwise its just a funny anecdote

 

[Alceste]

I have never understood how non-belief could be classified as a belief any more than lack of any evidence is used to support an irrational notion (e.g. "you can't prove that there's no god").

I suspect it is difficult for many people to accept there are totally different ways of thinking. The relatively strict empiricism and agnosticism* many atheists subscribe to seems quite difficult for people with a supernatural world view to empathize with. A life where the unknown or unknowable sits comfortably in the slot most people reserve for supernatural beliefs is impossible to imagine - so it can't be "uncertainty". It has to be a "belief", because that's where the "belief" goes. Maybe.

* Empiricism in the sense that we tend to think everything can be empirically studied and understood, and agnosticism in the sense that we tend to think what has not been empirically studied is not understood.