But not as an actual thing, just an idea.
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Atheism is a faith
- Thread starter MoonWater
- Start date
I believe all things exist in their proper context, that being the context in which we bring them into existence, i.e. make them things.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Well, for one thing, one is a logical fallacy while the other is not. Also, it's the difference between active and passive. It's NOT the same conclusion. There is no objective evidence for or against God, any active stance is one of faith.
StripperClown
Member
Real in our own minds doesn't really mean real.
Belief is based on evidence. Belief follows existence.
Ideas exist. Nothing exists for us without the idea of the thing.
ok .
Our minds are not real minds?
The entire 'world-as-we-know-it' exists in our minds (even the bits we imagine don't).
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Assuming sarcasm..
.. Is there anything you know of that doesn't exist at least as the idea of the thing?StripperClown
Member
It can exist in your mind. But if you believe it to be real outside of your own mind, that may not be the case.
You can't, for whenever you think about it, it becomes an idea.Assuming sarcasm..
And I was agreeing with you.
StripperClown
Member
Tell me... how do you ACTIVELY not believe in something? Don't you just not believe it? Do you sit there all day telling yourself you don't believe it?
I believe my mind to be not separate from the "outside", that is to say my mind is every bit a part of the universe.
And I believe the universe to be real.
Things that exist "in my mind" are real ideas, real imaginings, real thinkages (I use that made-up word in contrast to "thoughts" to express the content of the thought). They are real in the context in which they do exist.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
That's the difference. Weak atheism is a simple lack of belief. Strong atheism is the active belief that God does not exist.
StripperClown
Member
They exist within your own mind. But if you believe they exist in context to everyone else, and that everyone else lives that reality, that wouldn't be real.
Just so. And hence it exists as idea, until it exists in other contexts.
Frubaliness abounds!
StripperClown
Member
Same thing... "I don't believe in God." "I don't believe that God exists." Like I said, it's a negative.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
No, it's "I don't believe in God" vs. "I DO believe that God does NOT exist." Not the same thing. A negative belief is still a belief. A belief with no supporting evidence is a form of faith.
The mind provides context for existence. All existence; even the existence imagined to be "to everyone else".
I understand the way in which "imagined" means "not real", but on the other hand, it's really imagined (that's its proper context).
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StripperClown
Member
Wrong. There's no supporting evidence for God's existence. If it has yet to be truly proven beyond faith, then it doesn't exist on the level we're talking about (until proven.) The only thing you can have is an Atheist who says there isn't a god, but there's always that minute possibility that they give to everything else as well, or the Atheist who says there's no possible way for there to be a God. So, a negative belief is the same as disbelief in this context. You're arguing from agnosticism, which would say "hey, it's possible!" But with out definitive proof it's still in the realm of non-existence. Things generally don't exist until proven beyond faith, as goes scientific reasoning.
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