atheism is a (religious position)

[dybmh]

since you seem to be a bit confused, here's a simple way to figure it out: ask yourself how many gods a person believes in.

- if the answer is zero, they're an atheist.
- if the answer is one or more, they're some sort of theist.

The fault here is that you are asking yourself a question about others.

"ask yourself how many gods a person believes in" --- is not a proper method.

A better way is "ask THEM how many gods THEY believe in."

- if the answer is zero, they're atheist
- if the answer is one or more, they're some sort of theist
- if the answer is I don't know, they're agnostic

This begs the question: How can someone not know if they believe? The answer is simple. When asked the question, the person waffles back and forth and back and forth and eventually settles on "I don't know".

 

[viole]

Would you say that holding an opinion on motor bikes is not a motor bike opinion?

....and why?

i state that claiming the not existence of motorbikes is not a motorbikes opinion.

ciao

- viole

 

[PureX]

Sure but you started off talking about not believing.
Atheism doesn't require one to not believe.
Or not believing doesn't have to be one's state of mind to be an atheist.

The term "atheism" refers to the antithetical of theism. It is not just non-acceptance of the theist proposition. It is the antithetical to the theist proposition; i.e., it is the rejection of theism. Theism being the philosophical proposition that God/gads exist and in a way that matters to us (or should matter to us). Atheism is then the active philosophical rejection of that proposition: i.e., that God/gods do not exist in any way that matters to us (or should matter to us). These are first and foremost philosophical terms that refer to philosophical positions. They are not about whether or not anyone "believes in" them.

A theist is therefor someone that accepts the theistic proposition as valid, while an atheist is someone that rejects that proposition as invalid. The point being that the atheist is NOT INDIFFERENT. And atheism is not a non-position in spite of the many and constant lies to the contrary.

 

[Eddi]

i state that claiming the not existence of motorbikes is not a motorbikes opinion.

ciao

- viole

And I state otherwise

Obviously the issue is contested

 

[PureX]

The fault here is that you are asking yourself a question about others.

"ask yourself how many gods a person believes in" --- is not a proper method.

A better way is "ask THEM how many gods THEY believe in."

- if the answer is zero, they're atheist
- if the answer is one or more, they're some sort of theist
- if the answer is I don't know, they're agnostic

This begs the question: How can someone not know if they believe? The answer is simple. When asked the question, the person waffles back and forth and back and forth and eventually settles on "I don't know".

Actually, "belief" has nothing to do with it.

Theism is an assertion, not a belief.

If you accept the assertion that God/gods exist and in a way that matters to us as valid, then you have adopted the position of a theist.

If you reject the assertion that God/gods exist and in a way that matters to us as being invalid, then you have adopted the antithetical position of an atheist. (Atheism is the antithetical to theism.)

If you remain undetermined about the validity of the assertion due to a lack of sufficient information, then you are either an 'undecided' or an agnostic (the difference being that the agnostic asserts that we can not ascertain the necessary information).

 

[PureX]

I agree to an extend.
What I wanted to make clear with the post is that holding an opinion about religion is not a religious opinion.

It's a purely semantic issue, but I think it could be well argued that it IS a religious opinion if it is an opinion about religion.

In the same way as an opinion about politics is considered a political opinion.

 

[Eddi]

This is what I think:

Not having a religion and not collecting stamps are not analogous

As religion is more than a pass time

It is a different category of thing to stamp collecting

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is what I think:

Not having a religion and not collecting stamps are not analogous

As religion is more than a pass time

It is a different category of thing to stamp collecting

I consider a religion to be a class of hobby, so it seems perfectly analogous to me.

Edit: and any hobby is more than a pastime. This is why you see those shirts that say things like "life is fishing - the rest is just details."

 

[PureX]

Do you feel your belief is being rejected?

I 'believe' very little. The older I get the more I find that belief is just the ego needing to assume and maintain an illusion of righteousness.

 

[Eddi]

I consider a religion to be a class of hobby, so it seems perfectly analogous to me.

Fair enough

I don't

The issue is obviously contested

 

[PureX]

I consider a religion to be a class of hobby, so it seems perfectly analogous to me.

Edit: and any hobby is more than a pastime. This is why you see those shirts that say things like "life is fishing - the rest is just details."

I would have disagreed until you added that edit. It's an excellent clarification.

 

[Eddi]

any hobby is more than a pastime. This is why you see those shirts that say things like "life is fishing - the rest is just details."

Yet fishing does not involve some kind of God Concept

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Fair enough

I don't

The issue is obviously contested

What about religion do you think makes it not qualify as a hobby?

Religion gets tax breaks that other hobbies generally don't get. Is that it?

 

[PureX]

Yet fishing does not involve some kind of God Concept

Mmmm ... but it can be about finding meaning and purpose and joy in life, same as with a relgiion. My t-shirt would say "Art is Life".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yet fishing does not involve some kind of God Concept

From what I gather, depending on the person, fishing can involve a lot of prayer.


But is there a rule that hobbies can't involve god-concepts?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Mmmm ... but it can be about finding meaning and purpose and joy in life, same as with a relgiion. My t-shirt would say "Art is Life".

Is that what religion is supposed to be about? Sure doesn't seem that way from the outside.

 

[Eddi]

What about religion do you think makes it not qualify as a hobby?

Religion gets tax breaks that other hobbies generally don't get. Is that it?

No

Hobbies are done for fun

Religion involves a commitment

I am willing to concede that a hobby becomes a religion when it leads to a certain way of life and makes you a certain kind of person

But that would mean hobby = Religion

Not Religion = hobby

 

[Kathryn]

According to Pew Research, 81 percent of atheists do not believe in a god or gods.

8 facts about atheists

Around six-in-ten U.S. atheists are men (64%). And seven-in-ten are ages 49 or younger, compared with about half of U.S. adults overall (52%).

www.pewresearch.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept.

Religion is not just 'having a god concept." I have a concept of a unicorn, but I do not believe in unicorns. Because atheism does not include belief in any spiritual beings, it is NOT a religion. Indeed, it is the absence of religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No

Hobbies are done for fun

Religion involves a commitment

So religion isn't fun, therefore religion can't be a hobby?

Hopefully you get something rewarding out of religion; otherwise, why do it?

I am willing to concede that a hobby becomes a religion when it leads to a certain way of life and makes you a certain kind of person.

I wouldn't.

I don't adhere to the religious chauvinism involved in looking at something else and trying to "claim" the positive in it for religion.

But that would mean hobby = Religion

Not Religion = hobby

And I'm saying that a religion is a specific type of hobby: something done regularly in one's spare time for pleasure outside of paid work.