atheism is a (religious position)

[ImmortalFlame]

Let's review



Atheism doesn't include such a set of beliefs.



Atheism doesn't include such a set of beliefs.



Atheism doesn't include a particular set of beliefs or practices



Atheism doesn't include beliefs (religious or otherwise) or ritual observances of faith



Atheism doesn't include any particular beliefs about ethics or conscience



As we have seen, the opposite is true.
Literally none of the 5 points apply to atheism.

I would just like to add to this, for the sake of clarity, that "theism" wouldn't be considered a religion either by the same criteria and for the same reasons. It, like atheism, is a singular position on a singular subject. And a singular position does not a religion make, otherwise literally any form of thinking would be a religion.

Architecture? Religion.
Plumbing? Religion.
Poetry? Religion.
Believing one plus one equals two? Definitely a religion.

 

[viole]

Premise 1: Having a God Concept makes any belief system a religion - if a belief system features a belief about God then it is a religious belief system

Premise 2: Atheists have a God Concept. They have a position on God, an opinion on God that qualifies as a position and an opinion on God, even though Atheists either see no valid reason to believe in God or explicitly reject such a belief. The point is, they still have God-beliefs

You cannot spell "Atheist" without the word "Theist"

The Atheist God Concept is that God is made up by humans who didn't know any better and is nothing more than myth

Conclusion: Atheism is a religion

Edit: I no longer believe Atheism is a religion. But I do maintain that it is a religious position, so is the same type of thing as religions

Atheism is not a religious position. But it could be argued whether it is a meta religious position.

ciao

- viole

 

[Ashoka]

Those views have absolutely no merit as far as indicting Christians are concerned - Jesus never endorsed any of the sentiments that you quoted above.

Those quotes came from Christians, some of them early church fathers.

 

[PureX]

Theism is a philosophical proposition.
Atheism is the philosophical antithetical proposition.
Religions are collections of conceptual tools people use to express and maintain their chosen belief in a theological position (Images, stories, rituals, doctrines, practices, etc.).

So I suppose there could be a collection of conceptual tools that could be used to help an atheist express and maintain their belief in atheism. The closest thing I can think of to a religion in support of atheism is 'scientism'. Which is quite prevalent these days.

 

[shunyadragon]

Let's review



Atheism doesn't include such a set of beliefs.

Atheism does have a set of beliefs as with Theist it is variable. There are atheist churchges.

Atheism doesn't include such a set of beliefs.

dito

Atheism doesn't include a particular set of beliefs or practices

Some do, for example Zen Buddhists.. Like Theism it is variable some do some don't

 

[shunyadragon]

Those quotes came from Christians, some of them early church fathers.

So what?!?!?

By definition and recognized by the US government Atheism is a religion. Simplicity of belief by some or complexity as in Zen Buddhists and Scientism. It is still Atheism

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Atheism does have a set of beliefs as with Theist it is variable. There are atheist churchges.


dito


Some do, for example Zen Buddhists.. Like Theism it is variable some do some don't

Then that makes Zen Buddhism a religion, not atheism. For example, I could have, as part of my religion, a strict adherence to vegetarianism. But that does not make vegetarianism itself a religion.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So what?!?!?

By definition and recognized by the US government Atheism is a religion.

Not quite. Atheism is TREATED as a religion only per first amendment rights, i.e: it is afforded the same constitutional protections that religions are.

Atheism

Governments must treat atheism like a religion for purposes of the First Amendment. The establishment clause prohibits the government from favoring religion over non-religion.

www.mtsu.edu

That doesn't make it literally a religion, and it certainly isn't a religion by definition.

Simplicity of belief by some or complexity as in Zen Buddhists and Scientism. It is still Atheism

But the atheism isn't the part of Zen Buddhism that makes Zen Buddhism a religion. The atheism is just ONE particular position. One position does not constitute a religion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Atheism does have a set of beliefs as with Theist it is variable.

It does not.

If you disagree, name these sets of beliefs and explain how they are inherently part of atheism.

There are atheist churchges.

And whatever they teach there will be a set of beliefs that are part of *something else*.

This is like saying that communism is an "atheistic political ideology".
But the ideology is communism, not atheism. The "atheistic" part just serves to note what is *not* part of the ideology: being theistic beliefs.

Theism is the belief.
Atheism is the absence thereof.

There is no "church of atheism".
There is no doctrine, no belief set, no ideology,... associated with the mere term "atheism".

Humanism, for example, is not atheism.
An atheist does not have to be a humanist.

Some do, for example Zen Buddhists..

They are called ZEN BUDDHISTS.

Thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.
Zen Buddhists might be atheists, but not all atheists are Zen Buddhists.

You can't ascribe whatever is part of Zen Buddhism to atheism as if it is the same thing.
It is not.

I'm an atheist, but not a Zen Buddhist.
I'm an atheist, but not a communist.

I wonder why you resist this obvious point so much.

Like Theism it is variable some do some don't

Theism expresses a positive belief in theistic claims. They come in various flavors, sure, but they all share the same attribute: belief in theistic claims.
Atheism is the opposite. It expresses a DISBELIEF in theistic claims.

Whatever *other* things are believed (like zen buddhism) is independent of or additional to that and not part of it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

By definition and recognized by the US government Atheism is a religion.

You are confusing things decided by courts for tax purposes with actual real world things.

Courts in the US treat atheist communities as if they are religions so that they can enjoy the same kind of tax breaks / subsidies and whatnot.
This is done for juridical equality, not because atheism actually is a religion with a doctrine and belief system.

Simplicity of belief by some or complexity as in Zen Buddhists and Scientism. It is still Atheism

No, it is not.

This is as ridiculous as saying that you can call a soccer player a "non-tennis player" and pretend it's the same thing.

 

[shunyadragon]

You are confusing things decided by courts for tax purposes with actual real world things.

Courts in the US treat atheist communities as if they are religions so that they can enjoy the same kind of tax breaks / subsidies and whatnot.
This is done for juridical equality, not because atheism actually is a religion with a doctrine and belief system.

Accepting tax breaks and government benafits represents real world things and not your selective perconal agenda.

No, it is not.

This is as ridiculous as saying that you can call a soccer player a "non-tennis player" and pretend it's the same thing.

Yes it is. Terrible analogy that has nothing to do with religions and religious beliefs,

 

[shunyadragon]

It does not.

If you disagree, name these sets of beliefs and explain how they are inherently part of atheism.

Nobody is necessarily inherently anythng.

And whatever they teach there will be a set of beliefs that are part of *something else*.

This is like saying that communism is an "atheistic political ideology".
But the ideology is communism, not atheism. The "atheistic" part just serves to note what is *not* part of the ideology: being theistic beliefs.

Theism is the belief.
Atheism is the absence thereof.

The definition of religion does not necessitate the positive belief. Though most atheists have a positive belief in Philosophical Naturalism.. Most Theists have a negative belief in other Gods like Thor, Zeus and Athena.

There is no "church of atheism".
There is no doctrine, no belief set, no ideology,... associated with the mere term "atheism".

There are 230+ atheist organizations in the USA and they meet just like churches.

Home

www.atheists.org

Some belong to an Atheist Church some do not. I know some of the people that attend this atheist church

Sunday Assembly, dubbed “Atheist Church” opens in Chapel Hill, NC

The latest location of the fast growing godless congregation launched earlier this month in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Founded in January of 2013, Sunday Assembly was created by two British comedians, Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans. The group was launched for secular humanists, skeptics and...

www.worldreligionnews.com

Humanism, for example, is not atheism.
An atheist does not have to be a humanist.

Sort oof true, but Humanism by definition is compatible with most Atheism. All this demonstrates is like all Theists they do not necessarily agree,

They are called ZEN BUDDHISTS.

Yes and they are Atheists. JW rejecting they are a religion does not negate the fact they are a church and a religion.

Thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.
Zen Buddhists might be atheists, but not all atheists are Zen Buddhists.

You can't ascribe whatever is part of Zen Buddhism to atheism as if it is the same thing.
It is not.

I'm an atheist, but not a Zen Buddhist.
I'm an atheist, but not a communist.

So what?!?!?! Atheists and Theists vary greatly and some deny they are religions.

I wonder why you resist this obvious point so much.

I wonder why you resist this obvious point so much.

Theism expresses a positive belief in theistic claims. They come in various flavors, sure, but they all share the same attribute: belief in theistic claims.
Atheism is the opposite. It expresses a DISBELIEF in theistic claims.

Whatever *other* things are believed (like zen buddhism) is independent of or additional to that and not part of it.

So what!?!?!? Many Theists take a negitove stance on the existence of other Gods like Zeus, and Athena. Most, but not all atheists take a positive stance on Philosophical Naturalism.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Or else hasn't a clue what atheism is.

@shunyadragon
It should be noted that you as a human are more than just being an atheist, I would hope. And that for at least one definition of religion your general worldview can be considered religious.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Accepting tax breaks and government benafits represents real world things and not your selective perconal agenda.

So, any organisation that accepts tax breaks and government benefits is a religion?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No. I don't have a religion.
I did though grow up around buddhism
and might qualify as a jack- buddhist.

Calling atheism a belief system or a religion
is indulging in silly equivocation.

Yes, but again the rest of your worldview is properly in an objective sense religious, just not supernatural.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Atheism is a position on a religious subject. It's a position against.

On one subset of religion, yes. But that doesn't exclude that the general worldview of an atheist is religious.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So, any organisation that accepts tax breaks and government benefits is a religion?

Well, in the end the problem is that if you ask objectively what a religion is, it is not just supernatural in all cases. Or even just theism.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There are 230+ atheist organizations in the USA and they meet just like churches.

Home

www.atheists.org

Once again, "organisations that meet up" does not a religion make. There are hundreds of philosophical societies that meet on a weekly basis as well - does that mean that philosophy is a religion? What about self-help groups? Horticulturalists? Businesspeople who have weekly staff meetings?

These would all count.

Sort oof true, but Humanism by definition is compatible with most Atheism. All this demonstrates is like all Theists they do not necessarily agree,

Right, because neither theism nor atheism are religions on their own. They are specific responses to singular claims. To count as a religion requires far more than just one position on one subject.

If you disagree, then explain to me why believing one plus one equals two is NOT a religion.

Yes and they are Atheists.

They are lots of things. No ONE thing they are determines that they are a religion. Again, by this logic, Zen Buddhists are also vegetarian pacifists. Why isn't vegetarianism or pacifism a religion, then?

JW rejecting they are a religion does not negate the fact they are a church and a religion.

Right, because they meet a whole set of complex criteria. Not just because they happen to have one particular position about one particular thing.

ONE POSITION does not a religion make. The definition you provided makes that explicit.

 

[shunyadragon]

@shunyadragon
It should be noted that you as a human are more than just being an atheist, I would hope. And that for at least one definition of religion your general worldview can be considered religious.

I am not an atheist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Once again, "organisations that meet up" does not a religion make. There are hundreds of philosophical societies that meet on a weekly basis as well - does that mean that philosophy is a religion? What about self-help groups? Horticulturalists? Businesspeople who have weekly staff meetings?

These would all count.


Right, because neither theism nor atheism are religions on their own. They are specific responses to singular claims. To count as a religion requires far more than just one position on one subject.

If you disagree, then explain to me why believing one plus one equals two is NOT a religion.


They are lots of things. No ONE thing they are determines that they are a religion. Again, by this logic, Zen Buddhists are also vegetarian pacifists. Why isn't vegetarianism or pacifism a religion, then?


Right, because they meet a whole set of complex criteria. Not just because they happen to have one particular position about one particular thing.

ONE POSITION does not a religion make. The definition you provided makes that explicit.

Well, this is in effect a religion for a general academic understanding of it:

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

Read up on academics descriptions of religion and then reread the text and you can spot it, if you are objective.