Atheism people have a belief "God does not exist "

[Ponder This]

I don't believe any of that example represents belief. To uncover belief you need only ask yourself, "Is that true?" If the internal compass comes back with a resounding "Yes!" then it's something you believe. Belief isn't variable, it's just you seeing parts of the world as true. Most of the time, 99% of the time, you don't have to ask yourself, "Is that true?" because you accept apparent truth. Only when doubt arises is it necessary to consult the compass.

One could never say "I believe in unicorns" genuinely if they've never determined the truth of one.

I agree.
But people often make statements without attending to the rigor of them.
Hence, the problem of "true-belief".
A statement such as "I believe in unicorns" fails to reveal a person's position on pink unicorns.
But someone else could believe that "All unicorns are pink".
So we end up with a problem of true-belief. We don't know what people believe if they haven't fully specified what they believe and they might not think to specify it. After all, "Aren't all 'true-unicorns' blue?"

 

[ChristineM]

There was nothing “false” about what I said a couple of posts ago. Note that the statistics were from 1910-2010.

The growth rates of the Abrahamic religions from 1910-2010 were as follows: Judaism .11%, Christianity 1.32%, Islam 1.97%, and Baha’i Faith 3.54%.

From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).
Statistics from: Growth of religion - Wikipedia

The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because that time period includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944

Growth has slowed down since 2000 because the new goal of the Baha’i Faith is consolidation and community building rather than teaching the Faith, which explains why the growth rate has dropped to 1.72%.

Thanks for the link to the articles. I have saved those off to my directory for future reference.

I am not surprised that more and more people are dropping out of religions and this is actually a good thing (see below).

A couple of quotes from the second article:

“Countries with the best standard of living are turning atheist. That shift offers a glimpse into the world’s future.”

The increase in atheism could be because in these countries were primarily Christian and Christianity is on the decline in countries where people have higher levels of education and thus higher standards of living; so with that education they can no longer “believe in” the superstitious doctrines of Christianity.

“Religious people are annoyed by claims that belief in God will go the way of horse transportation, and for much the same reason, specifically an improved standard of living.”

I am not a bit annoyed because I know that eventually everyone in the world will believe in God, and they will all adhere to one common faith; but first the world has to go through a transition whereby people realize that their older religions are no longer pertinent or useful for this new age of mankind.

During this transition people will drop out of their religions and many will become atheists or agnostics, although some will retain their belief in God. This is actually a good thing, because as long as people cling to the older religions, not many people will become Baha’is, since religious tradition is the primary reason why people do not accept the Baha’i Faith.

As I previously posted, about 60% of people in the United States still believe that Jesus is coming back from the sky on a cloud. Most of the younger generation is no longer willing to adhere to such a superstitious belief so many are not remaining in the Christian religion they grew up with. But all the middle-aged and older people are going to continue to wait for Jesus; so as long as they are alive that slows the growth of the Baha’i Faith, since our belief that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ is antagonistic to their belief that the same man Jesus is going to return.

Ok.

As to 60% of Americans (3% of the world population), and your claims of everyone believing in god. What is it you fail to understand about the decline of religion?

The only way religion is going to continue to have any meaning in the next generation or two is if children continue to be indoctrinated to the extent they are unable to think for themselves. Information is far more easily accessible now than even 10 years ago. Free access to information is a major driver in the decline of religion.
This knowledge feast is likely to continue to grow.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He is indistinguishable if you don’t recognize the Messenger of God as Him.
God is not going to distinguish Himself in any other way.

Rather than going off on a new tangent, I’d appreciate it if you acknowledged the point I made in my last post.

You don’t need to agree with it, but at least give some indication that you understood what I said.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I am sure it is God speaking to me even though He is not speaking to me directly.

How can you possibly know if the evidence is sufficient without even looking at it?

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

“Again, a man proclaims: ‘There lies a garden in which there are trees with broken branches bearing no fruit, and the leaves thereof are faded and yellow! In that garden, also, there are flowering plants with no blooms, and rose bushes withered and dying—go not into that garden!’ A just man, hearing this account of the garden, would not be content without seeing for himself whether it be true or not. He, therefore, enters the garden, and behold, he finds it well tilled; the branches of the trees are sturdy and strong, being also loaded with the sweetest of ripe fruits amongst the luxuriance of beautiful green leaves.The flowering plants are bright with many-hued blossoms; the rose bushes are covered with fragrant and lovely roses and all is verdant and well tended. When the glory of the garden is spread out before the eyes of the just man, he praises God that, through unworthy calumny, he has been led into a place of such wondrous beauty!” Paris Talks, pp. 103-104

Oh wait, it is a Messenger so it cannot be sufficient since you want something else that is more verifiable, perhaps direct communication from God to you. Stupid me, I should know this already having posted to atheists on forums day and night for four years.

No, God knows you have the capacity to recognize His Messenger and those are his terms. If you don’t like those terms then you just won’t ever know that God exists or get the message.

“Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

It is unreasonable because it is unnecessary, since God can speak to one Messenger who can write down the message and make it available to everyone in the world. But no, it is not beyond God’s abilities.

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 70-71

In that passage, “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people” means that God could communicate in such a way that everyone would believe in Him – all men one people.

By the way, that is going to happen in the future, after everyone in the world has recognized Baha’u’llah:
Isaiah 11:9 “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea” means that everyone will believe in God. There will only be one religion, the religion of God.

About 93% of people in the world believe in God. They do not all have to believe in the “new religion.” It takes a long time for new religions to catch on, mostly because most people already have an older religion that they are attached to and believe is the only true religion.

God does not need 100% belief. God would like everyone to believe in Him but God does not need everyone to believe in Him and God is not ever going to force people to believe in Him. It has to be a free will choice.

I did not say they are lying. I suppose that is possible that they believed they heard from God before they joined the religion. I was only saying that they did not get the idea to be terrorists from a correct interpretation of the Qur’an.

You do not have to believe a thing I say and in fact you should not believe it. You should investigate it for yourself, IF you want to know if it is the truth. That’s what I did.

“Bahá’u’lláh asked no one to accept His statements and His tokens blindly. On the contrary, He put in the very forefront of His teachings emphatic warnings against blind acceptance of authority, and urged all to open their eyes and ears, and use their own judgement, independently and fearlessly, in order to ascertain the truth. He enjoined the fullest investigation and never concealed Himself, offering, as the supreme proofs of His Prophethood, His words and works and their effects in transforming the lives and characters of men.” Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 8

“What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.” – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62.

Please re-read this part of the passage:

“Indeed, there existeth in man a faculty which deterreth him from, and guardeth him against, whatever is unworthy and unseemly, and which is known as his sense of shame. This, however, is confined to but a few; all have not possessed, and do not possess, it.” Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

"Sadly, not everyone has the ability to empathize with others or naturally understands that if you wouldn't want someone to do something to you that you probably shouldn't do it to others. Most people need to believe that there is a God to behave as they should because not many people have a sense of shame.

But really it is more than that. People are inherently selfish so without a belief in God most people have no reason not to be selfish. So even though most atheists I know are upstanding citizens, paragons of virtue, they do not realize that the reason they are that way is because at one time in their lives, and even now through society, they have been affected by religion. Jesus said, love thy neighbor and do onto others; that did not magically drop out of the sky!

"Sadly, not everyone has the ability to empathize with others or naturally understands that if you wouldn't want someone to do something to you that you probably shouldn't do it to others. Most people need to believe that there is a God to behave as they should because not many people have a sense of shame.

But really it is more than that. People are inherently selfish so without a belief in God most people have no reason not to be selfish. So even though most atheists I know are upstanding citizens, paragons of virtue, they do not realize that the reason they are that way is because at one time in their lives, and even now through society, they have been affected by religion. Jesus said, love thy neighbor and do onto others; that did not magically drop out of the sky!"

Well then apparently your god was designed for those of you who weren't born with the ability to empathized and require some external force to tell you "You'd better be good or I'll get you!" I guess that's why he created me with a brain that requires verifiable evidence, because god knows I don't have any need for a god in order to not be inherently selfish. If indeed this god is the only thing that keeps you from spreading mayhem throughout the world, then I am very glad that you were created to be able to delude yourself in such a fashion.

 

[Trailblazer]

As to 60% of Americans (3% of the world population), and your claims of everyone believing in god. What is it you fail to understand about the decline of religion?

As I said in my previous post, this decline is a temporary situation.
The fly in the ointment for those who are hoping religion will continue to decline is the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. Religion will decline for a time and then it will increase, as more and more people come to accept the Baha'i Faith.

It was Isaiah who prophesied that everyone would believe in God:
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

The only way religion is going to continue to have any meaning in the next generation or two is if children continue to be indoctrinated to the extent they are unable to think for themselves.

Or if they are willing to think for themselves and actually look at a "new"religion that is different from the older religions, one that does not involve any indoctrination.

Information is far more easily accessible now than even 10 years ago. Free access to information is a major driver in the decline of religion.
This knowledge feast is likely to continue to grow.

I agree with that. That is why religion will decline for a time.

 

[Trailblazer]

Rather than going off on a new tangent, I’d appreciate it if you acknowledged the point I made in my last post.

You don’t need to agree with it, but at least give some indication that you understood what I said.

You said" "It’s not a question of “owing;” it’s a question of what possible reason we would have to believe in a god who, from our perspective, is indistinguishable from a god that doesn’t exist."

Okay, I think I understand. You cannot distinguish a god that might exist from a god that does not exist?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well then apparently your god was designed for those of you who weren't born with the ability to empathized and require some external force to tell you "You'd better be good or I'll get you!" I guess that's why he created me with a brain that requires verifiable evidence, because god knows I don't have any need for a god in order to not be inherently selfish. If indeed this god is the only thing that keeps you from spreading mayhem throughout the world, then I am very glad that you were created to be able to delude yourself in such a fashion.

God is not what prevents me from spreading mayhem. I had a conscience so even before I believed in God I lived the same way I do now...

But that is not true for most people. Most people need to believe in God to be moral.

God did not create you with a brain that requires verifiable evidence... You convinced yourself that you require that and now you have convinced yourself that there is no reason to believe in God since you are not selfish.

But the only reason to believe in God is not so you will be unselfish. There are other reasons, the main reason being that...

“The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

 

[ChristineM]

As I said in my previous post, this decline is a temporary situation.
The fly in the ointment for those who are hoping religion will continue to decline is the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. Religion will decline for a time and then it will increase, as more and more people come to accept the Baha'i Faith.

It was Isaiah who prophesied that everyone would believe in God:
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Or if they are willing to think for themselves and actually look at a "new"religion that is different from the older religions, one that does not involve any indoctrination.

I agree with that. That is why religion will decline for a time.

So your faith gives you clairvoyant powers... Cool

You have a very limited view of other peoples mindsets. As i said, the decline will continue because education will continue to improve with the easy access of information. Many, many studies have been carried out on this trend. By best friend was a member of an inter faith enquiry into this continuing trend and reasons for it.

Interesting you place your faith on a 3000 year old prophecy. Fyi, when religions had political power, the vast majority of people had no choice but to believe what they were told to believe, the days of ubiquitous religion are a thing of the past.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You said" "It’s not a question of “owing;” it’s a question of what possible reason we would have to believe in a god who, from our perspective, is indistinguishable from a god that doesn’t exist."

Okay, I think I understand. You cannot distinguish a god that might exist from a god that does not exist?

No. My point is that regardless of whether God “owes” us anything, if we have no evidence for God’s existence, then there’s no reason for us to believe in God.

 

[Cassandra]

You are wrong on that account.

Dark matter was indirectly observed in the Bullet Cluster:

The Bullet Cluster – A Smoking Gun for Dark Matter!

You mean, like God is indirectly observed in different manifestations?

Indirect conformation is only positive confirmation if the phenomena has been confirmed prior by direct observation. So you know it exists and know its properties and then you can acknowledge that this fits the observations you are dealing with. If you allow indirect observation itself to become positive observations than you are simply projecting ideas on reality.

We see a door opened. Opening doors is typically a thing humans do. But we did not see anyone opening the door. So lets combine these two ideas and assume an invisible person opened the door. The theory is then confirmed when we also see a window opened without observing anyone opening it. This must be caused by the same phenomena.

And by the way, indirect observation is not using instruments. For real hard proof we do not only need direct observation, we need to be able to either predict the formation of the phenomenon beforehand by the conditions prevailing or make it happen in an experiment. Just observing a hole in ones theory is no hard proof, because we observed a similar hole earlier and it fits the same explanation.

Really if you can prove Dark Energy and Matter, you deserve no less then the Nobel Price. I think you should put it in a paper and sent it to Nature. Your article talks about "a smoking gun". If a gun smokes it probably has been fired, even if there are many other ways it can be made to smoke. But the gun is made by humans to fire and Universe was not made to please our theories.

To prove Dark matter we need something like de Large Hadron collider. That allows to positively observe new matter and determine its properties and see if those fit what we observe in the Universe. The rest is wishful thinking even if it is later proved right. Many predictions are proven right, but a lucky shot can also hit the mark.

I think we see the same mindset in religion and atheism. People are skeptics towards each others beliefs not towards their own beliefs. That kind of skepticism came up with Christianity. It was opposite of the original skepticism. Science should be based on the original skepticism, but theoreticians often tend to forget that when they fall in love with their theories and become convinced they are right. When someone postulated a particle in the past, for them it is like it was observed in the past. But the minds eye is not the same as real observation. We do not want to rely on prophets and prophecies in science, we need positive observation.

That we are able to create models with ever better prediction power does not mean they are right, only that they are useful. We were able to build constantly improving steam engines, but still found other solutions. There is a reason scientist developed string theory and M-Theory, there still some important questions unanswered. Situation is even worse then in the time of Einstein when the one big question that seemed to elude everyone was: Where is the aether that allows light to travel? We have vastly expanded the theoretical framework, but the consistency did not improve in the same manner.

By the way: A scientist like Erik Verlinde has suggested that Gravity is emerging quality from particles and there is no need for Dark Matter and Dark Energy, look here for a more indepth explanation of his theory:

When you listen to this you also understand that the scientific understanding of reality is moving towards properties that come from mathematical theory properties rather than something ordinary humans can relate too. Where Einstein still tried to translate his ideas about reality into mathematics (He also called in help from other mathematicians to do that), nowadays mathematicians try to translate theoretical properties into visions of reality. That is what dark matter and energy is.

 

[Trailblazer]

So your faith gives you clairvoyant powers... Cool

No, I have no special powers. I just go by what the Prophets prophesize.

You have a very limited view of other peoples mindsets. As i said, the decline will continue because education will continue to improve with the easy access of information. Many, many studies have been carried out on this trend. By best friend was a member of an inter faith enquiry into this continuing trend and reasons for it.

I never said that the decline would not continue. I said it would continue, but not forever.
Studies cannot predict what will happen in the far-off future. Only Prophets can predict that.

Interesting you place your faith on a 3000 year old prophecy. Fyi, when religions had political power, the vast majority of people had no choice but to believe what they were told to believe, the days of ubiquitous religion are a thing of the past.

I do not place my faith in the Bible. I place my faith in the Baha'i Writings, but it just so happens that the prophecies in the Bible support the Baha'i Writings. For example...

The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14) The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muḥammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3)

Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15)
Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 56

 

[Trailblazer]

No. My point is that regardless of whether God “owes” us anything, if we have no evidence for God’s existence, then there’s no reason for us to believe in God.

True...

 

[ChristineM]

No, I have no special powers. I just go by what the Prophets prophesize.

I never said that the decline would not continue. I said it would continue, but not forever.
Studies cannot predict what will happen in the far-off future. Only Prophets can predict that.

I do not place my faith in the Bible. I place my faith in the Baha'i Writings, but it just so happens that the prophecies in the Bible support the Baha'i Writings. For example...

The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev. 11:14) The first woe is the appearance of the Prophet, Muḥammad, the son of ‘Abdu’lláh—peace be upon Him! The second woe is that of the Báb—to Him be glory and praise! The third woe is the great day of the manifestation of the Lord of Hosts and the radiance of the Beauty of the Promised One. The explanation of this subject, woe, is mentioned in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: “The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near.” (Ez. 30:1–3)

Therefore, it is certain that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is for the neglectful, woe is for the sinners, woe is for the ignorant. That is why it is said, “The second woe is past; behold the third woe cometh quickly!” This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh, the day of God; and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Báb.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.” (Rev. 11:15)
Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 56

Ahh, ok, you are just repeating hearsay.

I can't see religion recovering from its declined baring worldwide catastrophe destroying all technology and communications.

No, historically (so called) Prophets cannot predict anything with any more accuracy than the average Joe. Oh sure, after the fact a few "prophecies" can be interpreted as accurate when viewed from a very oblique angle and faith fills in the gaps. In general though, prophecies are no show.


My apologies for misunderstanding the intricacies of your faith.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

No, so Baha’u’llah claimed.

Right. So why can't God speak for himself?

No, based upon Baha’u’llah’s say so as well as all the evidence He provided to prove that He was telling the truth.

You assume that Baha'u'llah is telling the truth no matter what is said. That's the funny part about religious dogma.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Indirect conformation is only positive confirmation if the phenomena has been confirmed prior by direct observation.

It was predicted prior to observation. It was known that dark matter only interacts with luminous matter through gravitation so it was predicted that there should be 4 areas of mass when two galaxies run into each other, the 2 areas of luminous mass and 2 areas of dark matter further out. This prediction was confirmed with the Bullet cluster.

And by the way, indirect observation is not using instruments. For real hard proof we do not only need direct observation, we need to be able to either predict the formation of the phenomenon beforehand by the conditions prevailing or make it happen in an experiment. Just observing a hole in ones theory is no hard proof, because we observed a similar hole earlier and it fits the same explanation.

Using this criteria, we have not observed gravity since we have not observed the graviton which is the predicted particle responsible for the force.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ahh, ok, you are just repeating hearsay.

I can't see religion recovering from its declined baring worldwide catastrophe destroying all technology and communications.

You won't see Christianity recover but you will see Islam and the Baha'i Faith grow.

No, historically (so called) Prophets cannot predict anything with any more accuracy than the average Joe. Oh sure, after the fact a few "prophecies" can be interpreted as accurate when viewed from a very oblique angle and faith fills in the gaps. In general though, prophecies are no show.

Interesting you mention this... An article entitled "Do Prophecies Prove anything?" just came in this morning that shed a new light on prophecies for me...

"Of course, prophecies are capable of being fulfilled by multiple claimants, and may be fulfilled more than once. It takes faith and discernment to discriminate between true and false claims to fulfillment......

True prophecies come true when a true prophet, who speaks truth to power, proclaims that prophecy has been fulfilled. Scholars of religion call such a declaration a “truth-claim.” The truth or falsity of a given truth-claim cannot be objectively determined, generally speaking—instead, if a claim is widely accepted by the followers of a Faith, then it’s usually regarded as true.......

Baha’u’llah taught that prophecies are a “test,” such that only the pure in heart can truly perceive the nature of the prophecy itself and the truth of its fulfillment. In The Book of Certitude, Baha’u’llah wrote:

Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God’s holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books. – Baha’u’llah, The Book of Certitude, p. 49.

So, rather than proving prophecies true, the prophecies prove whether or not the reader’s understanding is true. That is to say, the purpose of true prophecies, according to Baha’u’llah, “hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world.”
http://bahaiteachings.org/prophecies-prove-anything?

 

[Trailblazer]

Right. So why can't God speak for himself?

God is an immaterial Being so God speaks through a material Being. It is still the Voice of God.

“Attract the hearts of men, through the call of Him, the one alone Beloved. Say: This is the Voice of God, if ye do but hearken. This is the Day Spring of the Revelation of God, did ye but know it. This is the Dawning-Place of the Cause of God, were ye to recognize it. This is the Source of the commandment of God, did ye but judge it fairly. This is the manifest and hidden Secret; would that ye might perceive it. O peoples of the world! Cast away, in My name that transcendeth all other names, the things ye possess, and immerse yourselves in this Ocean in whose depths lay hidden the pearls of wisdom and of utterance, an ocean that surgeth in My name, the All-Merciful. Thus instructeth you He with Whom is the Mother Book.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 33-34

You assume that Baha'u'llah is telling the truth no matter what is said. That's the funny part about religious dogma.

I don't assume anything without thoroughly checking out the claimant.

 

[ChristineM]

You won't see Christianity recover but you will see Islam and the Baha'i Faith grow.

Interesting you mention this... An article entitled "Do Prophecies Prove anything?" just came in this morning that shed a new light on prophecies for me...

"Of course, prophecies are capable of being fulfilled by multiple claimants, and may be fulfilled more than once. It takes faith and discernment to discriminate between true and false claims to fulfillment......

True prophecies come true when a true prophet, who speaks truth to power, proclaims that prophecy has been fulfilled. Scholars of religion call such a declaration a “truth-claim.” The truth or falsity of a given truth-claim cannot be objectively determined, generally speaking—instead, if a claim is widely accepted by the followers of a Faith, then it’s usually regarded as true.......

Baha’u’llah taught that prophecies are a “test,” such that only the pure in heart can truly perceive the nature of the prophecy itself and the truth of its fulfillment. In The Book of Certitude, Baha’u’llah wrote:

Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God’s holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books. – Baha’u’llah, The Book of Certitude, p. 49.

So, rather than proving prophecies true, the prophecies prove whether or not the reader’s understanding is true. That is to say, the purpose of true prophecies, according to Baha’u’llah, “hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world.”
http://bahaiteachings.org/prophecies-prove-anything?

If you say so. Take population growth and the increasing ease of access to information then the I increasing numbers will not keep pace with the increasing, more enlightened population. In real terms religions will decreas

Are a self fulfilling, big yourself up, home grown light switch, totally unbiased and correctly peer reviewed article. Yes i am being sarcastic

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

God is an immaterial Being so God speaks through a material Being. It is still the Voice of God.

You can understand why people would doubt that humans speak for a deity, can't you?

 

[Trailblazer]

You can understand why people would doubt that humans speak for a deity, can't you?

Yes, I understand, because I would never believe that a mere human spoke for a deity.

But it is not a mere human who speaks for a deity. It is a Manifestation of God, who is human, but more than a human. He has a human nature is so He can communicate to humans and act as a mediator, but He also has a universal divine mind, which is beyond nature and beyond the reach of our understanding. We can understand His human side, but not His divine side.

“But the universal divine mind, which is beyond nature, is the bounty of the Preexistent Power. This universal mind is divine; it embraces existing realities, and it receives the light of the mysteries of God. It is a conscious power, not a power of investigation and of research. The intellectual power of the world of nature is a power of investigation, and by its researches it discovers the realities of beings and the properties of existences; but the heavenly intellectual power, which is beyond nature, embraces things and is cognizant of things, knows them, understands them, is aware of mysteries, realities and divine significations, and is the discoverer of the concealed verities of the Kingdom. This divine intellectual power is the special attribute of the Holy Manifestations and the Dawning-places of prophethood; a ray of this light falls upon the mirrors of the hearts of the righteous, and a portion and a share of this power comes to them through the Holy Manifestations.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 218