Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
Ah - so perfectly outside the point!
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Atheism people have a belief "God does not exist "
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, I said it was probably wrong. When you gave your definition I agreed to it and found atheists that matched your definition, including Bertrand Russell.
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
No you didnt - you disticly opposed and looked down upon it.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
If you were attempting to make a discernible point, I suggest you try again.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wrong, I accepted it and then gave you examples. Here is the entire post quoted:
"
↑
An atheist that does not believe in a higher being.[that was you}
Then there are countless examples:[this was me, as you see I accepted your definition}
atheist philosophers - Google Search
Bertrand Russel may be the most famous you will see in that search."
And there was one specific example and a link to countless others.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I would not believe in God based upon the Hindu Vedas, the Bible or the Qur’an either, but I do believe based upon the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. I think the Baha’i Faith is much better evidence than any of the older religions because all the facts surrounding the Revelation of Baha’u’llah are recent history so they are verifiable.
I read everything that was in print before I became a Baha’i in 1970 but I never really thought much about God back then because I was so young. It was only later in 2014 that I read one of those books called Gleanings again that I realized that it alone was enough evidence for me to believe that Baha’u’llah was speaking for God. At that time I started a new journey, because I was certain that God exists. We are all so different though, in what we consider evidence.
Logically speaking, there can be no verifiable evidence for God since an immaterial Being cannot be verified by objective means. God is a mystery for the most part, so if people cannot accept that they will never believe in God. But once we believe/know with certitude that God exists, the mystery is actually no problem at all. The reason that God remains a mystery is explained in the Writings of Baha’u’llah and it makes sense to me so I am perfectly satisfied with it.
First you said that god does not owe you verifiable evidence that he exists, then you said that if this god wants you to believe that he exists then he had better be prepared to provide some verifiable evidence for that reality. Do you see the contradiction? If God does not owe you that, why should God provide it? Why would god owe anyone verifiable evidence, which is in effect proof that he exists?
The problem is that you want verifiable evidence of something that cannot be verified. If magical fairies are not real, they cannot be verified. If God is immaterial, God cannot be verified. The solution is that we have to verify that God exists for ourselves, by looking at the only evidence that God has ever provided, the messengers God sends to represent Him. Once we have verified in our own mind that that the messenger spoke for God then we know for certain that God exists.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I won't disagree with you on this point. As a group, atheists are probably more rational than theists are as a group. However, Baha'is are the exception, because we believe based upon reliable evidence, not based upon "feelings."
Also, as a group, atheists are more highly educated than theists, but again, Baha'is are the exception. Baha'is are highly educated as a rule. That could be one reason why they were smart enough to recognize Baha'u'llah.
Okay...that's an interesting perspective. Regardless, though, do you believe rational thought comes (or at least can come) later?
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That never happened to me, at least not as far as my religious beliefs are concerned.
I had to look long and hard at the evidence before I was going to believe in God since that is a HUGE commitment.
Moreover, there were times when I fought believing in God tooth and nail.
Wait...you think Bertrand Russell is not a 'true' atheist?
Why?
Do you only consider strong atheists 'true' atheists?
Why??
'Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?' by Bertrand Russell
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Precisely. In fact, if you have actual evidence? You may simply dispense with faith altogether.
Take gravity-- it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, but if you try to ignore it? Gravity acts on you regardless.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I won't disagree with you on this point. As a group, atheists are probably more rational than theists are as a group. However, Baha'is are the exception, because we believe based upon reliable evidence, not based upon "feelings."
Also, as a group, atheists are more highly educated than theists, but again, Baha'is are the exception. Baha'is are highly educated as a rule. That could be one reason why they were smart enough to recognize Baha'u'llah.
But we went over your "evidence" it was not much better than that of Christians or Muslims. Unless you have been holding back on us.
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
You should have looked long and hard before the sperm found the egg
Shushersbedamned
Well-Known Member
Because Bertrand Russell has doubts both ways. He does not and did not at late claim his views were correct.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is NO WAY I could ever post all the evidence for the Baha'i Faith on a public forum.
I already told you that.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Again, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
No, you do not have faith first. You look at the evidence first. Then once you are certain that the evidence is from God, there is no more need for faith, because you know God exists.
I did. And I am rather certain that no god who is WORTHY of the title?
Would ever stoop so low as to require special messengers...
That fact alone, proves pretty well, there is no evidence here.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely not the way it works. You have it 100% backwards, sorry.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Dark energy and dark matter...are the current best explanations, it wouldn't surprise me if we come up with a better one (Not god did it)
I knew I'd upset someone with my list of non-beliefs.