Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
We can prove to ourselves that Baha'u'llah or some other Manifestation is the exponent of God, and then we would know God exists. It just seemed backwards to me.
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Atheist, Christian, and Baha'i Cosmologies
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Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
How could we prohibit nature?
If a person can convince themselves but not others that suggests self-deception and poor judgement. That’s religion.
So Baha’i now accepts gays fully in their community and imposes no restrictions on them being in relationships? It’s all equal?
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
You seem to have a hard time comprehending what is being said by me. Look back at what I said and try to comprehend what I said.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
His Cause is the Cause of God which is the Cause of Baha'u'llah. They are one and the same.
Are you inferring that someone else besides Baha'u'llah delivered God's testimony?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, that suggests that people cannot convince other people of something they believe, especially when the other people are dead set on not believing it. If people believe something just because someone convinced them it is not coming from within themselves so they don't really believe it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We don't prohibit the orientation, only the behavior.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But not everyone can prove that to themselves since all people are thinking from a different mid.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Shoghi Effendi said:
"No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong."
But why is it wrong according to the Baha'i Faith? Because it is wrong for anyone to have sex out of wedlock, be they a homosexual or a heterosexual.
I believe that the Baha'i revelation is superior to the scientific method when it comes to determining the truth about material things because science is not infallible whereas the Word of God is infallible. That is why Baha'u'llah wrote:
'This Day, O Shaykh, hath never been, nor is it now, the Day whereon man-made arts and sciences can be regarded as a true standard for men'
source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Pages 1-20
'Weigh not the Book of God with such standards and sciences as are current amongst you, for the Book itself is the unerring balance established amongst men. In this most perfect balance whatsoever the peoples and kindreds of the earth possess must be weighed, while the measure of its weight should be tested according to its own standard, did ye but know it.'
Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 73-74
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Baha'i Faith as nothing against reproduction. In fact Baha'is are encouraged to have children.
Marriage is explicitly enjoined by Bahá’u’lláh. He writes:
And when He desired to manifest grace and beneficence to men, and to set the world in order, He revealed observances and created laws; among them He established the law of marriage, made it as a fortress for well-being and salvation, and enjoined it upon us in that which was sent down out of the heaven of sanctity in His Most Holy Book.
And:
God hath prescribed matrimony unto you...Enter into wedlock, O people, that ye may bring forth one who will make mention of Me amid My servants. This is My bidding unto you; hold fast to it as an assistance to yourselves.
Shoghi Effendi explains in a letter written on his behalf that marriage is not obligatory, but that it is “recommended to the believers by Bahá’u’lláh.”
Marriage is defined in the Bahá’í Faith as a union between two consenting adults: a man and a woman. Abdu’l-Bahá has stated the following in this regard:
Bahá’í marriage is the commitment of the two parties one to the other, and their mutual attachment of mind and heart. Each must, however, exercise the utmost care to become thoroughly acquainted with the character of the other, that the binding covenant between them may be a tie that will endure forever. Their purpose must be this: to become loving companions and comrades and at one with each other for time and eternity…
The true marriage of Bahá’ís is this, that husband and wife should be united both physically and spiritually, that they may ever improve the spiritual life of each other, and may enjoy everlasting unity throughout all the worlds of God. This is Bahá’í marriage.
In another Tablet, He has written:
O ye two believers in God! The Lord, peerless is He, hath made woman and man to abide with each other in the closest companionship, and to be even as a single soul. They are two helpmates, two intimate friends, who should be concerned about the welfare of each other.
If they live thus, they will pass through this world with perfect contentment, bliss, and peace of heart, and become the object of divine grace and favor in the Kingdom of heaven. But if they do other than this, they will live out their lives in great bitterness, longing at every moment for death, and will be shamefaced in the heavenly realm.
Strive, then, to abide, heart and soul, with each other as two doves in the nest, for this is to be blessed in both worlds.
A selection of extracts from the Bahá’í writings on family life and marriage
The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community
And that is the proof of prejudice against gays. Why can’t they act on their natural sexuality? Because a guy who is long dead said so. Oh, and he claims to speak for a God he couldn’t show exists.
Oh, well then gay marriage fixes it. Right? Then gay sex is ok?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please feel free to cite any experts who say that sexual desire is the only aspect of a person's physical nature.
Times have changed and the experts now know more. I could cite experts who say that sex is not even necessary for human well-being.
Did I say I know that as a fact? As I told you before whenever I talk about God I am stating a belief. You can ignore it if you want to.
I never said it was a fact. It is a belief. If you don't want to read about Baha'i beliefs don't read on a Baha'i thread.
Of course it doesn't have any authority beyond the Bahai Faith. That is why it is prefaced by "'The Bahá’í Faith recognizes...."
Of course our rules apply only to Baha'is and no one else.
I do enjoy following them, and I followed them long before I ever heard of the Baha'i Faith, since I have always believed that sex out of wedlock was not right behavior for me.
And I am far from being too old to have sex, if I get married again and choose to have sex.
I have no hangups. Believing in sex only in wedlock is not a hangup. If a man does not respect that I don't care since I don't need a man.
Don't we all?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Prejudice: an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge:
prejudice
I don't consider it to be prejudice since "I believe" it is based upon the knowledge of God.
I don't expect you to see it that way since you don't even believe that God exists!
They can do whatever they want to do, as can heterosexuals. There are no Baha'i police peering into their bedrooms.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
According to Baha'i Law marriage can only be between a man and a woman, but if one of them has a sex change operation they can be married as Baha'is.
Oh shoot. Just when it looked like maybe Baha’i wasn’t prejudiced against gays.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not need to offer a defense for what I believe.
There is no "as if it applies to all of us." I have said repeatedly that Baha'i Laws only apply to Baha'is. They don't apply to anyone else..
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yes, somebody is fooling themselves. A Baha'i can prove it to themselves. So, therefore, that concept of God is real? But they can't show those things to another person that proves it to them?
Then, again, we have the trinitarian Christian. They can prove that God is a trinity to themselves, but their proofs from the Bible and the NT can't prove it to a Baha'i. The Baha'i will probably say that those "proofs" are incorrect... that they are based on weak evidence and our dependent on a wrong interpretation of Bible and NT verses.
But, of course, the Baha'i proof is true.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Is homosexuality seen as an "affliction" in the Baha'i Faith? As something that can be overcome, and thus making the person normal and having sexual feelings only for those of the opposite sex?