Atheist Desire to Disprove God

[Orias]

but thats a broad question? if you narrow it down to what the belief in question is about then i will be happy to answer...

Let's rephrase

Do you believe, that it is not a belief to believe something?

When phrased that way, I'd probably answer "I'm a humanist."

I know, and we already went over this.

But I was describing a scenario where this so called "atheist" doesn't think on levels as you.

 

[Magic Man]

I do, and I have been agreeing with everyone that has been saying that.

Why can't you just stop here? This would have been sufficient, but you had to go and contradict it completely. The simple fact is atheism is both a lack of belief and a belief. If you fit either description, you qualify as an atheist.

It seems like everyone is trying to complicate everything and argue false points.

I simply stated that atheism is a belief because people go out of their way to defend it. Not only that, atheism is a belief because the word ,belief, describes the atheist's view towards Godly beings.

Sure, it is a lack of certain belief towards certain concepts, but it is a concrete belief the describes it as disbelief or lack of belief in this certain concept.

It's a belief regardless of the flavor, simply because these "coined" concepts were fabricated and reinforced with the idea that it will need to be defended.

If it is not so much as a belief, a world view, or an ontological stance then people wouldn't bother to go out of their way to defend what they believe.

Next time just leave this part out, and say you realize that atheism can be simply the lack of belief in God, even though many times, it also includes the belief that God doesn't exist. If you truly understand that, then you won't post stuff like this.

 

[Orias]

Why can't you just stop here? This would have been sufficient, but you had to go and contradict it completely.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

The simple fact is atheism is both a lack of belief and a belief. If you fit either description, you qualify as an atheist.

I completely agree.

Next time just leave this part out, and say you realize that atheism can be simply the lack of belief in God, even though many times, it also includes the belief that God doesn't exist. If you truly understand that, then you won't post stuff like this.

Your right, to truly understand something you follow it without question. Good for you

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If it is not so much as a belief, a world view, or an ontological stance then people wouldn't bother to go out of their way to defend what they believe.

That's what you're misunderstanding. Most atheists do not defend atheism, they defend skepticism/rationalism. That is their worldview, of which atheism is merely one of countless conclusions which logically result from that worldview.

Not believing in the existence of god is as important to me as not believing in the existence of leprechauns. The same tools are used to reach each conclusion, and each of those conclusions have the same impact on my day to day life - none.

I realize it is difficult for many theists to understand that god isn't an important issue to everyone, atheists included, so they need to perceive atheism as something bigger than it is, but it really is as simple as a rational, logical conclusion - nothing more.

 

[waitasec]

Let's rephrase

Do you believe, that it is not a belief to believe something?[/COLOR]

it is definitely a belief to believe something. but belief is based on empirical evidence, is it not? believing you get a paycheck on the 1st and 15 of every month has been empirically proven. the look one gets from a loved one is proof there is love...when one dives in a pool of water you believe you will get wet...why would i believe someone? because they have proven themselves trustworthy

 

[Orias]

That's what you're misunderstanding. Most atheists do not defend atheism, they defend skepticism/rationalism. That is their worldview, of which atheism is merely one of countless conclusions which logically result from that worldview.

Actually, I knew that most atheists claim a stance of neutral skepticism/rationalism.

But that is besides the point that people take the burden of the label atheist unto themselves. It's not a matter of what's in the bag of burden that they carry, just that they carry it with them.

Basically, it subjects itself to inconsistencies and flaws. It would appear sooner or later that all man made concepts with falter as man made concepts.

Which leads me to the question, can one be a narrow minded skeptic?

Not believing in the existence of god is as important to me as not believing in the existence of leprechauns. The same tools are used to reach each conclusion, and each of those conclusions have the same impact on my day to day life - none.

Good for you. Those conclusions have the same impact on my daily life as well-none.

I realize it is difficult for many theists to understand that god isn't an important issue to everyone, atheists included, so they need to perceive atheism as something bigger than it is, but it really is as simple as a rational, logical conclusion - nothing more.

Actually, I found God to be quiet irrelevant here. And if one would of noticed that I never tried provoking a belief in his existence, in fact he was barely mentioned at all, besides as references and examples.

And truly, I never perceived atheism as something bigger than it is, what I actually got out of this is that most atheists think that it is bigger than it is. I actually tried stating that it is less than what most make it appear to be.

I merely stated that atheism is a belief, now why this exploded into some huge misunderstanding and assuming that I am disagreeing with everything said beats me.

I agree with everything that has been said about atheism, except for that people say it's not a world view, posses no ontological stance, and is not a belief. When very clearly, people have described to me what they believe atheism is.

 

[Orias]

it is definitely a belief to believe something. but belief is based on empirical evidence, is it not? believing you get a paycheck on the 1st and 15 of every month has been empirically proven. the look one gets from a loved one is proof there is love...when one dives in a pool of water you believe you will get wet...why would i believe someone? because they have proven themselves trustworthy

Thank you.

And honestly I feel as if this will clear up the mess on this thread and a few others.

But you know, there's always the people that half read my posts and then make arguments out of thin air

 

[Magic Man]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

I meant that your later statements contradicting your first one.

I completely agree.


Your right, to truly understand something you follow it without question. Good for you

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I agree with everything that has been said about atheism, except for that people say it's not a world view, posses no ontological stance, and is not a belief. When very clearly, people have described to me what they believe atheism is.

I guess you hear what you want to. Good luck with that.

 

[Orias]

I guess you hear what you want to. Good luck with that.

It's not what I hear. It's what I see in debates that I have with atheists.

Atheism is just as much as a program as Christianity. It's just that atheists are capable of realizing this.

Everyone hears what they want to, don't try and exclude yourself from this cramped boat.

I meant that your later statements contradicting your first one.

Which would be?

 

[outhouse]

I simply stated that the belief that one is true or right in proposition to an aspect makes a subsequent belief.

I do realize atheism is a lack of belief, as much as it is a disbelief, a belief in nothing and so on.

Instead of teaming up against me, maybe you should realize that belief is catagorized by one who believes they are right, which would include you, all of you.

Sure, you may have an accessory that may add on to your belief, but that doesn't exclude the "fact" that atheism is a label used to describe and narrow down "God belief". Now, whether you belief, don't belief, or you belief you lack "belief" you put yourself into a descriptive category that adheres to ontological and conceptual fabrications.

If atheism isn't a belief then I shouldn't have atheists tell me that they are "atheists" when I ask them what they believe.

you are thick headed.

you dont get it and you ignored my post, because i explained the reality of the situation.

If a god existed and I said I dont believe that would be disbelief.

fact is there is nothing there to believe or disbelieve.

what part of I dont disbelive dont you get???

If nothing is there, there is nothing to believe in or not. That is not a belief.

get it through your thick skull and quit trying to derail threads with nonsense

 

[Orias]

you are thick headed.

you dont get it and you ignored my post, because i explained the reality of the situation.

If a god existed and I said I dont believe that would be disbelief.

fact is there is nothing there to believe or disbelieve.

what part of I dont disbelive dont you get???

If nothing is there, there is nothing to believe in or not. That is not a belief.

get it through your thick skull and quit trying to derail threads with nonsense

Why do you even post here?

I bolded your mistake, in case your incapable of seeing that.

 

[outhouse]

Atheism is just as much as a program as Christianity.

this is blatantly false information

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not what I hear. It's what I see in debates that I have with atheists.

Atheism is just as much as a program as Christianity. It's just that atheists are capable of realizing this.

Everyone hears what they want to, don't try and exclude yourself from this cramped boat.

As an atheist, tell me what it is that I believe.

 

[waitasec]

If atheism isn't a belief then I shouldn't have atheists tell me that they are "atheists" when I ask them what they believe.

i see what you mean here...but you have to realize
you'll have a really short conversation

 

[outhouse]

Why do you even post here?

I bolded your mistake, in case your incapable of seeing that.

I post to point out your error's

IT IS YOU WHO ARE MAKING THE MISTAKE. YOU NEED TO PROVE GOD EXIST, IF YOU WANT TO PROVE DISBELIEF

 

[waitasec]

YOU NEED TO PROVE GOD EXIST, IF YOU WANT TO PROVE DISBELIEF[/B]

good point...

 

[outhouse]

good point...

I know the stupid little game he's playing

enough is enough

 

[waitasec]

I know the stupid little game he's playing

enough is enough

well i wouldn't say that...
but you have your reasons...


i had a hard time with the question actually. is disbelief a belief...?
but how you put it made real sense to me. thanks.

 

[Magic Man]

It's not what I hear. It's what I see in debates that I have with atheists.

Atheism is just as much as a program as Christianity. It's just that atheists are capable of realizing this.

Everyone hears what they want to, don't try and exclude yourself from this cramped boat.

There's just no getting through to you, is there?