Atheist Desire to Disprove God

[outhouse]

Really your POE at this point

you and your satanic junk are just pushing buttons out of boredom

 

[Alceste]

Maybe this has already been said but it's along post so forgive me. But no one can disprove God Himself, so these people go after things like religion or man because that is all they have. And they distort who God is for many of us in order to mock Him. If they went to disprove God they would have nothing to write. It's the easy way out because there is no proof either way.

Here you make the common mistake of assuming it is your god we have a problem with rather than your religion. Religion is the target because religion is the cause of numerous social problems, the erosion of the secular state and the propagation of ignorance and superstition in place of enlightened empiricism. Your god doesn't do those things (probably because he isn't real), your religion does.

 

[Alceste]

explain this incorrect horse pucky

there you go calling no belief a belief

prove how this statement is correct

Orias believes a lack of belief is a belief that there is in fact a lack of belief. It's a fresh pile of pure, steaming sophistry, but there you have it. He's "right."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'll tell you again. It's a merely a belief, period.

Right, what is that belief? Do you not understand the question?

Again, mere belief. It is not specified because the belief of it, is subjected to the personal interpretation of it.


Simply, the point is, anything believed to be true is a belief. You hold the view that you are correct in your vision of atheism, that is a belief. You can claim that there is a "knowledge" behind it, but the truth of the matter is that it wouldn't exist if humans did not.

There you go again. Even if you hold the belief(A) that a belief(B) is true, that still doesn't describe what belief(B) is. You keep positing that belief(B) is a belief, but won't say what it is. We've established that belief(A) is a verifiable belief about belief(B), but you have said anything meaningful about belief(B), which is the one you keep saying is a belief.

One more time - if you think atheism itself is a belief, then please simply state what belief(s) are specific to atheism. And remember, beliefs about atheism don't constitute atheism, or even describe atheism.

 

[Magic Man]

So now your telling me what my points were?

Apparently someone has to. The point of your words was one thing. If you meant something different, you have a very poor grasp on the English language.

Why should I listen to anything you say, if you didn't even know what point I was trying to get across the whole time?

Apparently, I'm not the one who doesn't know that. You've contradicted yourself in a single post before. You say you agree that atheism can be just a lack of belief, and then go on to describe how atheism is a belief, and if it's not, why do they teach it in schools and why is that what you're told by other atheists all the time, etc.

The problem is that we're trying to get you to actually grasp the fact that atheism is just a lack of belief, and it is not necessarily a belief at all, and you're saying you agree with that before blatantly contradicting it with other comments. It's like we're saying the sky is blue, and you say you agree right before you start talking about how people get all bent out of shape when you try to tell them the sky is green.

 

[outhouse]

Orias believes a lack of belief is a belief that there is in fact a lack of belief. It's a fresh pile of pure, steaming sophistry, but there you have it. He's "right."

I just call POE on him and his satanic junk

he is not debating at all, just parroting off

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Simply, the point is, anything believed to be true is a belief. You hold the view that you are correct in your vision of atheism, that is a belief. You can claim that there is a "knowledge" behind it, but the truth of the matter is that it wouldn't exist if humans did not.

Let me try this logic out:

I believe that I'm an atheist, therefore being an atheist is a belief.

I believe that I'm 6 feet tall, therefore being six feet tall is a belief.

I believe that I speak English, therefore speaking English is a belief.

Did I get it right? :sarcastic

 

[ninerbuff]

I am more apt to believe in the Norse god Thor than the biblical god. Come on now, when it thunders and there's lightning, I can "hear" Thor smacking that Hammer in the sky! And there's more proof......there's even a movie of him coming out so you can see his awe inspiring power! Try to prove that Thor isn't real. Comic books, Norse mythology, and even Marvel Studios will show that this is a true god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOddp-nlNvQ

 

[outhouse]

Did I get it right? :sarcastic

thats why im calling poe on him

hes pushing buttons out of boredom

 

[Orias]

Really your POE at this point

you and your satanic junk are just pushing buttons out of boredom

I can only laugh at your cowardly disgression.

You know nothing of Satanism, so why bring it up?

Orias believes a lack of belief is a belief that there is in fact a lack of belief. It's a fresh pile of pure, steaming sophistry, but there you have it. He's "right."

I belief that anyone that beliefs anything holds a belief

Right, what is that belief? Do you not understand the question?

Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons. Hmm...

There you go again. Even if you hold the belief(A) that a belief(B) is true, that still doesn't describe what belief(B) is. You keep positing that belief(B) is a belief, but won't say what it is. We've established that belief(A) is a verifiable belief about belief(B), but you have said anything meaningful about belief(B), which is the one you keep saying is a belief.

Look above.

One more time - if you think atheism itself is a belief, then please simply state what belief(s) are specific to atheism. And remember, beliefs about atheism don't constitute atheism, or even describe atheism.

What beliefs are specific to atheism...hmm how about nothing believing a God exists?

Apparently someone has to. The point of your words was one thing. If you meant something different, you have a very poor grasp on the English language.

My words I meant very well, you just adjusted them to your comfort zone

Apparently, I'm not the one who doesn't know that. You've contradicted yourself in a single post before. You say you agree that atheism can be just a lack of belief, and then go on to describe how atheism is a belief, and if it's not, why do they teach it in schools and why is that what you're told by other atheists all the time, etc.

I don't find it to be contradictive to state that atheism is a lack of belief in a God, as much as it is a belief that a God does not exist.

The problem is that we're trying to get you to actually grasp the fact that atheism is just a lack of belief, and it is not necessarily a belief at all, and you're saying you agree with that before blatantly contradicting it with other comments. It's like we're saying the sky is blue, and you say you agree right before you start talking about how people get all bent out of shape when you try to tell them the sky is green.

The problem is that, there is atheists that agree with me, and not you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What beliefs are specific to atheism...hmm how about nothing believing a God exists?

So, not believing something and believing something are the same thing to you, right?

The problem is that, there is atheists that agree with me, and not you.

Now you're just being dishonest, since practically every other atheist on this forum agrees with his definition.

 

[Magic Man]

My words I meant very well, you just adjusted them to your comfort zone

As I said the point of the sentences you wrote was that atheism is a belief, which contradicts the fact that it's a lack of belief.

I don't find it to be contradictive to state that atheism is a lack of belief in a God, as much as it is a belief that a God does not exist.

The problem is that, there is atheists that agree with me, and not you.

Actually, I think the real problem here is that you've gotten so deep into deepities that you've confused yourself, so that even you don't know what you're trying to say anymore. Whether or not there are atheists who don't understand that atheism is only necessarily a lack of belief in God doesn't change the fact that atheism is only necessarily a lack of belief in God.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Look above.

Answer the question. Or man up and admit that you can't.

What beliefs are specific to atheism...hmm how about nothing believing a God exists?

Does this sentence really make grammatical sense in your head? Please reword in English. Or are you trying to say that, as an atheist, my belief is that nothing believes that a god exists? If so, this is simply false.

One more time, if atheism is a belief, then what is the belief that is specific to atheism.

 

[outhouse]

Now you're just being dishonest,

+1

he has back pedaled the whole time like a fish out of water

 

[KnightOwl]

I don't find it to be contradictive to state that atheism is a lack of belief in a God, as much as it is a belief that a God does not exist.

I know many atheists in real life and even among atheists there is a tad bit of disagreement about what the terms mean. I will say though that FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God. Whether or not they use that word to describe that belief, nearly every one of them I've spoken with concerning this don't believe one can prove there is a or is not "a god."

That gets to another debated definition... agnostic. Much more debate over this word. My best understanding is that it should remain as it was originally coined meaning it is impossible to know. Common usage outside the atheist/agnostic/freethinker/humanist community is that agnostic means you haven't decided whether to believe in God or not. Some even use it to mean non-religious with god-believers included.

Oh, and those atheists I socialize with will usually tell you that if you're talking about the Biblical God, they're about as certain as they can be, he doesn't exist. Also their general lack of belief in a god is such that they've seen enough attempts to argue for its existence, that they aren't spending time trying to find SOMEONE who can convince them because by now the odds of that happening are very very very slim. So they give about as much time to divining the truth about god's existence as they give to finding leprechauns.

If someone already covered this, I'm sorry - I hate reading thru every post. hehe

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I know many atheists in real life and even among atheists there is a tad bit of disagreement about what the terms mean. I will say though that FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God. Whether or not they use that word to describe that belief, nearly every one of them I've spoken with concerning this don't believe one can prove there is a or is not "a god."

That gets to another debated definition... agnostic. Much more debate over this word. My best understanding is that it should remain as it was originally coined meaning it is impossible to know. Common usage outside the atheist/agnostic/freethinker/humanist community is that agnostic means you haven't decided whether to believe in God or not. Some even use it to mean non-religious with god-believers included.

Oh, and those atheists I socialize with will usually tell you that if you're talking about the Biblical God, they're about as certain as they can be, he doesn't exist. Also their general lack of belief in a god is such that they've seen enough attempts to argue for its existence, that they aren't spending time trying to find SOMEONE who can convince them because by now the odds of that happening are very very very slim. So they give about as much time to divining the truth about god's existence as they give to finding leprechauns.

If someone already covered this, I'm sorry - I hate reading thru every post. hehe

This is excellently well put. Listen to this.

 

[Wombat]

Quote:Originally Posted by KnightOwl
"I know many atheists in real life and even among atheists there is a tad bit of disagreement about what the terms mean. I will say though that FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God. Whether or not they use that word to describe that belief, nearly every one of them I've spoken with concerning this don't believe one can prove there is a or is not "a god."

"FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God"?
Demonstrably not the case- MANY atheists say and insist "there is no God" .
I doubt we can do them justice by suggesting they do not "believe" what they say.

"That gets to another debated definition... agnostic. Much more debate over this word. My best understanding is that it should remain as it was originally coined meaning it is impossible to know. Common usage outside the atheist/agnostic/freethinker/humanist community is that agnostic means you haven't decided whether to believe in God or not. Some even use it to mean non-religious with god-believers included. "

Problem here is that the very "belief there is no God" so prevalent among atheists is >exactly< what prompted Thomas Henry Huxley to coin the term &#8216;agnostic&#8217;.</SPAN>
He was rejecting the apparent certainty (&#8216;gnosis&#8217 of the theist that there was a God AND the apparent certainty (&#8216;gnosis&#8217 of the atheist that there was no God.


&#8220;I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel. I cannot see one shadow or tittle of evidence that the great unknown underlying the phenomenon of the universe stands to us in the relation of a Father [who] loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts. So with regard to the other great Christian dogmas, immortality of soul and future state of rewards and punishments, what possible objection can I&#8212;who am compelled perforce to believe in the immortality of what we call Matter and Force, and in a very unmistakable present state of rewards and punishments for our deeds&#8212;have to these doctrines? Give me a scintilla of evidence, and I am ready to jump at them.
Of the origin of the name agnostic to describe this attitude, Huxley gave the following account:[22]
&#8220;When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain "gnosis,"&#8211;had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.
So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of "agnostic." It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the "gnostic" of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took.&#8221;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Henry_Huxley_and_agnosticism#Thomas_Henry_Huxley

Then as now there is good cause for &#8216;agnosticism&#8217; to stand against the belief of those- &#8220;quite sure they had attained a certain "gnosis,"&#8211;had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence&#8221;...be they theist or atheist.

 

[LuisDantas]

"FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God"?
Demonstrably not the case- MANY atheists say and insist "there is no God" .
I doubt we can do them justice by suggesting they do not "believe" what they say.

What you are saying is that there are many strong atheists (who say that there is no God). That is correct, but doesn't mean that they belief that the only atheism is strong atheism. Most of them recognize that atheism is simply lack of belief in God.

 

[Wombat]

What you are saying is that there are many strong atheists (who say that there is no God)..

Well...that eliminates the (capitalised and emphasised) "FEW if ANY " in-
"FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God"

 

[Alceste]

Well...that eliminates the (capitalised and emphasised) "FEW if ANY " in-
"FEW if ANY think "atheist" means a belief there is no God"

No, all atheists on this forum and the vast majority outside it, regardless of whether or not they personally believe there is no god, understand that the basic definition of atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Only theists are confused on that point.