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Atheist looking for religious debate. Any religion. Let's see if I can be convinced.

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wow, so your deity isn't objectively real, it is just a subjective belief, you admit it? That is refreshingly honest anyway.
That is not what I said.

I said "It is fundamentally impossible to have objective evidence for a God that is not an objective reality."
I meant that God is not a material object, but that does not mean that God is not real.

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I suspect her response will be to claim that you haven't demonstrated how they are fallacious, so they aren't fallacies. Or just outright denial.
You guessed wrong because I had no response because I do not egotistically need to defend myself to prove I am right.

I have atheists I can talk to who are respectful and act like adults and engage in actual discussions so I have no need to talk to atheists who show no respect and play egotistical baby games.

Happy trails.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I said "It is fundamentally impossible to have objective evidence for a God that is not an objective reality."
I meant that God is not a material object, but that does not mean that God is not real.

Just not objectively real. Well I can't address what you meant to say, only what you did say, and again here it is verbatim?

It is fundamentally impossible to have objective evidence for a God that is not an objective reality.

That's pretty clear tbh.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Just not objectively real. Well I can't address what you meant to say, only what you did say, and again here it is verbatim?

That's pretty clear tbh.
I meant that God is not a material object, but that does not mean that God is not real.
That's pretty clear.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm simply concluding that a particular line of reasoning is either always valid or never valid. You do not agree with that position.
I do not know what you are referring to.
At least we are agreed that God is not objective reality.
Great, and so how do you think we can objectively verify God's existence?
It's not a valid test if the results can't be verified!
The results of your independent investigation can be verified by you.
I clearly explained why they are invalid as evidence for objective truth in THIS post.
Fair enough, and before I go any further, what do you mean by objective truth? Do you mean something you can physically verify?
As you already know by now, I have created a thread specifically to deal with the validity of homeopathy. If there is indeed scientific evidence to support the claims homeopathy makes, present it there.
As you already know by now, I am not claiming anything about homeopathy nor do I care to discuss it.
Maybe I am,, and you'll never know it because you are under a false idea of what a messenger of God is.
And you know what a messenger of God is? How do you know that I don't know unless you do know?
You have been clearly told what fallacies you have made. Both by me and by the other people who have pointed out your use of fallacies.
Why would it matter what some atheists told me? Please answer the question.

If it matters what some atheists have told me it also matters what I have clearly told you and them, as there can be no double standard.
Every single time you say that there is EVIDENCE that Mr B is a messenger for God, you are presenting your opinion as evidence.
No, that is a straw man. I presented the actual evidence umpteen million times. I have an opinion ABOUT the evidence, but my opinion IS NOT the evidence.

Below is a list of the primary categories of evidence that support the claims of Baha'u'llah..

1. His character (His qualities).

That can be determined by reading about Him in books such as the following:
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4

2. His Revelation is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth, i,e., the history of the Baha'i Faith).

That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

3. His Writings which can be found in books that are posted online: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

4. Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies that refer to the return of Christ and the promised Messiah. That proves to me He was the Messiah and the return of Christ. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are delineated in the following book:
William Sears, Thief in the Night

5. Baha'u'llah predicted many events that later came to pass. Some of these predictions and how they came to pass are listed and delineated in this book: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah
No, it is not logical.

How can you have issues with a being that you do not believe even exists? It would be like me having issues with the aliens from the movie Independence Day because they blew up my home city!
You STILL do not understand what I said.
If I had issues with God so I might decide that I no longer believe that God exists. Thus I was a believer but I became an atheist because I no longer believed that God exists.
Okay, let's have a look at what you've said about evidence regarding your religion...

"I verified that He was a legit Messenger from God by looking at the evidence that proved to me that He is a Messenger." 1329

"I have evidence that supports Baha'u'llah's claim to be a Messenger of God" 1182

"there is evidence that 'indicates' that the Baha'i Faith is a true religion from God" 1189

"there is a boatload of evidence that shows that God chose to send Messengers." 786

"we also so have facts surrounding the early life and the coming of Baha'u'llah as well as what He did on His mission that demonstrates that He fulfilled the Bible prophecies for the Messiah and the return of Christ." 791

"The only evidence that God exists comes from Holy Books." 614

"holy books are the only real evidence of God because they originated from God through His Messengers." 652

"There is plenty of evidence that comes on the form of holy books" 653

"the objective evidence that God exists is in the scriptures" 654

That is just a small sample of the numerous posts in this thread where you claim there is evidence for God (which is a supernatural claim of your religion).

If you want me to believe that you've never claimed that you have evidence for the supernatural claims of your religion, then you should have claimed so many times that there WAS evidence!
I believe what I said in those quotes, but not once did I ever say that I could prove/claimed that I have evidence for the supernatural claims of my religion. To be clear, a supernatural claim would be that God exists or that Baha'u'llah received messages from God. On numerous occasions I have said that I can never prove God exists and I can never prove that Baha'u'llah received messages from God, since I can never prove that God exists.

I believe that God exists and I believe that Baha'u'llah received messages from God and I know both are true in my mind and heart, but I can never prove those are true and that is why I never claimed they are true and I never will.
 
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Sheldon

Veteran Member
I believe that God exists and I believe that Baha'u'llah received messages from God

I believe you believe it, I don't your claim however.

I know both are true in my mind and heart,

Yet you cannot demonstrate anything approaching objective or empirical evidence to support your claim you know something.

I can never prove those are true and that is why I never claimed they are true and I never will.

You just claimed to know they were true? Dear oh dear.....
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You're the one that claimed there are spirits or a spirit world.

I'm asking you what you mean by the term, since you brought it up.
I do not claim there are spirits in the spiritual world, I believe that there are spirits in the spiritual world.

As it relates to the afterlife, a spirit is a soul. The brief video below depicts what a soul is and what happens to a soul in the afterlife, according to my beliefs.

 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
I do not claim there are spirits in the spiritual world, I believe that there are spirits in the spiritual world.

As it relates to the afterlife, a spirit is a soul. The brief video below depicts what a soul is and what happens to a soul in the afterlife, according to my beliefs.


That video is just an endless list of unevidenced claims, exactly like your posts?
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
You guessed wrong because I had no response because I do not egotistically need to defend myself to prove I am right.

I have atheists I can talk to who are respectful and act like adults and engage in actual discussions so I have no need to talk to atheists who show no respect and play egotistical baby games.

Happy trails.

However, in a discussion like this, you DO have to support your claims, or they will be considered meaningless.
 
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