Atheist looking for religious debate. Any religion. Let's see if I can be convinced.

[CG Didymus]

I doubt there was a literal Adam or Noah, maybe even Abraham. But Baha'is make them all manifestations. As if they "revealed" some new religion? They all came out of Judaism. Then Hinduism, who has many avatars, the Baha'is only mention Krishna.

This is what I said I had doubts about...

So doubt them. You will probably continue to doubt them till the day you die.

You believe that Adam, Noah and Abraham were all real, historical people? Yet, Baha'is don't believe in the Biblical accounts of their lives?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, there's the proof. How far off is that day? How long has it been approaching? And what is going to cause those intervening clouds to go away? And what ever that is, why didn't those clouds dissipate a long time ago?

Only God knows.

Or did God want to make humankind suffer a little longer?

Humanity has chosen to suffer a little longer by the choices they made to turn away. Just how long that will be only God knows.

 

[Trailblazer]

You believe that Adam, Noah and Abraham were all real, historical people? Yet, Baha'is don't believe in the Biblical accounts of their lives?

I believe that Adam, Noah and Abraham were all real, historical people because Baha'u'llah wrote about them in the Kitab-i-Iqan. I don't care what the Bible says, that's not necessarily accurate.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you can't just say that I get this from Revelation such and such? Oh well.

CG Didymus said: ↑
But, like I've said over and over, the Book of Revelation has the catastrophic events happen before Christ returns.

Show me where in Revelation you think it says that and I will tell you what I believe it means.

 

[CG Didymus]

Whether the Baha'i Faith is growing or not is totally unrelated to whether it is the truth from God or not.

Not to worry... soon there will be lots of new Baha'is...

The Universal House of Justice is convinced that "entry by troops will soon become an established pattern for the growth of the Faith in country after country."​

 

[Trailblazer]

I said I like a lot of things about the Baha'i Faith but there's also lots of things they teach I don't agree with. I never use the "F" word... or at least not that "F" word.

samtonga43 said: ↑
Hmmm.. interesting. What makes you think CG Didymus is 'on the fence'?

You have told me you are on the fence between Christianity and the Baha'i Faith numerous times. That's what I was referring to.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe that Adam, Noah and Abraham were all real, historical people because Baha'u'llah wrote about them in the Kitab-i-Iqan. I don't care what the Bible says, that's not necessarily accurate.

So another case where you believe because Baha'u'llah said so. And Christians tell me the Jesus is the truth because the Bible says so. Then the Baha'is tell me they believe in the Bible but not the stories about Adam, Noah and Abraham... They aren't "necessarily" accurate. Yeah, no kidding. But the ones that Baha'u'llah says about them, they are accurate.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not to worry... soon there will be lots of new Baha'is...

The Universal House of Justice is convinced that "entry by troops will soon become an established pattern for the growth of the Faith in country after country."​

I'm not worried because whether the Baha'i Faith is growing or not is totally unrelated to whether it is the truth from God or not.

 

[Trailblazer]

So another case where you believe because Baha'u'llah said so.

But the ones that Baha'u'llah says about them, they are accurate.

That's right, because I believe that Baha'u'llah is infallible whereas the Bible is not.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, and when have any religion that has a bunch of laws, supposedly from God, ever been successful at getting its people to obey them?

Why would it matter who obeyed the laws? They are still God's laws regardless.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG Didymus said: ↑
But, like I've said over and over, the Book of Revelation has the catastrophic events happen before Christ returns.

Show me where in Revelation you think it says that and I will tell you what I believe it means.

What? I quoted a verse in Acts where it says that Jesus showed himself to be alive with many proofs and you don't believe it. Sorry, but you are not one of the Baha'is I'd trust on interpreting anything in the Bible. You have said you don't care, it's old and no longer relevant. So let me tell you what you should do. You read it and tell me when Baha'u'llah returns. That'll be easier, because whatever I put out there I know is going to be wrong.

 

[CG Didymus]

samtonga43 said: ↑
Hmmm.. interesting. What makes you think CG Didymus is 'on the fence'?

You have told me you are on the fence between Christianity and the Baha'i Faith numerous times. That's what I was referring to.

I have never said the "F" word. By what is happening in the world right now, I think both could be right. But I'd be in much more trouble if the Christians are right.

 

[Trailblazer]

But it is obvious that it will take a catastrophe. With some religious movements it took war. Joshua went into the promised land and killed lots of the people there. And then there's Constantine with the Christians. So it's kind of like people need to be forced into a new religion.

That was then and now is now. This is a new age. People won't be forced, they will choose, eventually.

 

[Trailblazer]

What? I quoted a verse in Acts where it says that Jesus showed himself to be alive with many proofs and you don't believe it.

Where is that in Acts?

Sorry, but you are not one of the Baha'is I'd trust on interpreting anything in the Bible. You have said you don't care, it's old and no longer relevant. So let me tell you what you should do. You read it and tell me when Baha'u'llah returns. That'll be easier, because whatever I put out there I know is going to be wrong.

You were the one who brought up Revelation so you tell me what verses those are.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why would it matter who obeyed the laws? They are still God's laws regardless.

Since even false religions had laws, supposedly from their God or Gods, then I think it was the leaders in the society that made the laws and attributed them to God. Even with the Biblical laws, some of them sound way too man made. Plus, too many of them carried the death penalty. Even the Baha'i law about the length of hair for men. Really? God needs to make a law about that?

 

[Trailblazer]

I have never said the "F" word. By what is happening in the world right now, I think both could be right. But I'd be in much more trouble if the Christians are right.

Undecided means on the fence.
You will be in the same amount of trouble whether Christians or Baha'is are right.

 

[CG Didymus]

That was then and now is now. This is a new age. People won't be forced, they will choose, eventually.

No, no, we still have the bad stuff coming our way. I think that's God's way of getting people to listen. "A few more trials and tribulations is what is needed, then they'll listen to me!"

 

[Trailblazer]

"A few more trials and tribulations is what is needed, then they'll listen to me!"

That is also possible.

 

[CG Didymus]

Undecided means on the fence.
You will be in the same amount of trouble whether Christians or Baha'is are right.

Oh, I'm using it to mean that I'll listen to what you got, but don't expect me to agree with you. And do Baha'is have eternal hellfire with worms eating your flesh and little demons stabbing you with pitchforks?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, I haven't seen her in my dreams, but there's been a couple of maidens that come pretty close. But I'm not sure God sent them to me.
So Mirza Husayn-‘Ali didn't know he was the chosen one until this mysterious spirit lady appeared to him? So did he ever see or speak to God directly? Or, was it an angel or something? 'Cause if not, how did he know these spirit being talking to him were from God?

Maidens come in every one's dreams, males or females. Who else but Allah sends these dreams? No, he did not know till 1853 that he will be chosen as a 'manifestation'. He did not ever see Allah or speak directly with him. After his selection as a 'manifestation', he was of one mind with Allah (or whoever sent the Maiden), so no further need for communication. He encountered only one, the Maiden, and no Jibreel (as far as I know).