Atheists and God

[Magic Man]

Thank you for the laugh as well. Let me ask you this. If the majority of North Americans believe in God, they why do they have to bow down to your non belief?

They don't. What would make you think they do, or that we want them to?

As for seeing the evidence of God? Look all around you. Its everywhere around you.

No, it's not. Evidence is something that points more to one explanation than another. Fingerprints on a gun are evidence of someone using that gun because they point to a specific person. Everything around me is only evidence of the existence of everything around me. It could just as easily have come to be by no intelligent cause as by one.

Lets take example our own planet.

The Earth is at the perfect distance from the sun to support life. Any closer our oceans would vapourize any closer they would freeze.

The moon is at the perfect distance from the earth, its orbit rises and falls the tides. Without the tides our oceans would become stagnant.

The axis of the earth is at just the right degrees to cause the change of the seasons.

Jupiter, the largest planet is the perfect size and orbit to protect the earth from rogue comets.

This is just a small example. Did the earth just come into existence by chance?

They have just discovered another planet that could most likely support life.

They figure there could be more and more out there. This has to be engineered.

New Planet Discovered 2010 Called Gliese 581g: Can It Sustain Life? | Dots Period

Or Did all this just happen? Or was it created?

It all just happened. There is no reason to believe it was intelligently created other than your desire for it to be so. It's like saying "See? This hole is the perfect size for that puddle inside it. It must have been created specifically for that puddle".

I have a long-sleeve shirt that's been my favorite shirt for years. It fits me perfectly, and sits just right on me. It doesn't slide back and choke me, the sleeves come down just the right length to me hands, but without getting in the way, and the shirt comes down past my waste just enough to look good but not too long. I mean, it seems obvious that the shirt was made specifically for me, right? If it fits me so perfectly while many others don't, it's clear that they made the shirt just for me.

I do like how you include the fact that they are finding other planets that could turn out to be very much like Earth and contain life, since that would go against the traditional "God created the universe for humans" idea.

Also, out of the vast, vast size of the universe, how much of it is conducive to life? Even if there are other planets that contain life, we can still see that the majority of the universe is not conducive to life. So, why would an intelligent creator create such perfect circumstances for life in only 5% (probably much less, but you get the idea) of this universe? Doesn't it seem much more likely that out of the trillions and trillions of planets that orbit the trillions and trillions of stars, some of them would just happen to have certain circumstances that were conducive to life? It sure seems infinitely more likely to me.

 

[Magic Man]

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, “This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!”

Douglas Adams

Ah, that's where that came from. I've heard takes on it before, but never knew it was an actual quote from someone. As you can see from my last post, I like it.

 

[gerobbins]

Then maybe you shouldn't come on a site about religion and start a thread in the "Religious Debates" section sharing your uninformed and extremely biased view, and asking for responses from people.

And your view is not biased?

 

[McBell]

Good article to read. What is everyones thoughts?

Athiests and God | Relijournal

It is nothing more than a preaching to the choir.

 

[McBell]

And your view is not biased?

Great retort.
With that prime example of superior thinking on your side, those poor poor atheists ain't got a chance!

 

[Magic Man]

And your view is not biased?

Wow, that's the best you could give me after my two replies? No, my view is not biased. I am able to look at the situation objectively.

 

[gerobbins]

They don't. What would make you think they do, or that we want them to?



No, it's not. Evidence is something that points more to one explanation than another. Fingerprints on a gun are evidence of someone using that gun because they point to a specific person. Everything around me is only evidence of the existence of everything around me. It could just as easily have come to be by no intelligent cause as by one.



It all just happened. There is no reason to believe it was intelligently created other than your desire for it to be so. It's like saying "See? This hole is the perfect size for that puddle inside it. It must have been created specifically for that puddle".

I have a long-sleeve shirt that's been my favorite shirt for years. It fits me perfectly, and sits just right on me. It doesn't slide back and choke me, the sleeves come down just the right length to me hands, but without getting in the way, and the shirt comes down past my waste just enough to look good but not too long. I mean, it seems obvious that the shirt was made specifically for me, right? If it fits me so perfectly while many others don't, it's clear that they made the shirt just for me.

I do like how you include the fact that they are finding other planets that could turn out to be very much like Earth and contain life, since that would go against the traditional "God created the universe for humans" idea.

Also, out of the vast, vast size of the universe, how much of it is conducive to life? Even if there are other planets that contain life, we can still see that the majority of the universe is not conducive to life. So, why would an intelligent creator create such perfect circumstances for life in only 5% (probably much less, but you get the idea) of this universe? Doesn't it seem much more likely that out of the trillions and trillions of planets that orbit the trillions and trillions of stars, some of them would just happen to have certain circumstances that were conducive to life? It sure seems infinitely more likely to me.

How do you know it just happened? I am going to disagree with you on this one. In my thoughts it is impossible for it to have just happened. Its just too complex for it to have just happened. As for your long sleeve shirt; I don't get your comparison.
As for life out in the universe, we don't know how much of it is conducive to life or life as we know it. We are making discoveries all the time of extremophiles. Living
organisms that live in enviroments we did not think was possible. There could be life on other planets even in our solar system that live in such conditions.

As well of all the trillions of stars life as we live it can possibly exist in each stars "Goldiocks Zone" (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/02oct_goldilocks/)

If each star has planets in that zone then there are trillions and trillions of planets that could have life.

I am not naive when it comes to the creation of the universe. I don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, I don't beleive that the earth or the universe was created in just 7 days but I don't beleive that it just happened, in my mind that is impossible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As for life out in the universe, we don't know how much of it is conducive to life or life as we know it. As well of all the stars out there Trillions and Trillions life as we know it can only exist in each stars "Goldiocks Zone" (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/02oct_goldilocks/)

If each star has planets in that zone then there are trillions and trillions of planets that could have life.

But you just went on about how "fine-tuned" Earth is for life. If trillions and trillions of planets can support life, then this doesn't sound like Earth is particularly "fine-tuned" at all.

 

[McBell]

How do you know it just happened? I am going to disagree with you on this one. In my thoughts it is impossible for it to have just happened. Its just too complex for it to have just happened. As for your long sleeve shirt; I don't get your comparison.
As for life out in the universe, we don't know how much of it is conducive to life or life as we know it. As well of all the stars out there Trillions and Trillions life as we know it can only exist in each stars "Goldiocks Zone" (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/02oct_goldilocks/)

If each star has planets in that zone then there are trillions and trillions of planets that could have life.

I am not naive when it comes to the creation of the universe. I don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, I don't beleive that the earth or the universe was created in just 7 days but I don't beleive that it just happened, in my mind that is impossible.

so complexity has to have a creator?
Interesting.
Who/what created god?

 

[tumbleweed41]

How do you know it just happened? I am going to disagree with you on this one. In my thoughts it is impossible for it to have just happened. Its just too complex for it to have just happened.

Again...

All you have done with your "evidence of design" claim is made a subjective assertion. My challenge to you is to find objective evidence of design.

Can you do it?

 

[gerobbins]

Wow, that's the best you could give me after my two replies? No, my view is not biased. I am able to look at the situation objectively.

Objectively? How are you looking at it objectively?

 

[gerobbins]

But you just went on about how "fine-tuned" Earth is for life. If trillions and trillions of planets can support life, then this doesn't sound like Earth is particularly "fine-tuned" at all.

That does not make sense. How is the earth not fine tuned? Think about it. If our oribit shifted by just a varying degree or if the axis of the earth changed by just a varying degree our life as we know it would change drastically. Or could end entirely.

Which would apply to other planets as well. (read about the goldilocks zone)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That does not make sense. How is the earth not fine tuned? Think about it. If our oribit shifted by just a varying degree or if the axis of the earth changed by just a varying degree our life as we know it would change drastically. Or could end entirely.

... or could've sprung up on one of the other trillions and trillions of worlds that you say can support life.

Which would apply to other planets as well. (read about the goldilocks zone)

Wouldn't it be just as easy for a planet to slip into this "goldilocks zone" as it would be for one to slip out?

 

[gerobbins]

so complexity has to have a creator?
Interesting.
Who/what created god?

How can it not have a creator? Everything is created by something or someone.
Thats like saying something like stonehendge just appreared out of nowhere.
We don't know how it was built or who built it but we know that it was engineered and built by someone.
Dumb comparison I know, but lets get real.

 

[McBell]

How can it not have a creator? Everything is created by something or someone.
Thats like saying something like stonehendge just appreared out of nowhere.
We don't know how it was built or who built it but we know that it was engineered and built by someone.
Dumb comparison I know, but lets get real.

You forgot to answer the second question:

Who/what created god?
​

 

[tumbleweed41]

More subjective assertions.
Where is your objective evidence?

 

[gerobbins]

... or could've sprung up on one of the other trillions and trillions of worlds that you say can support life.

Think about the odds of that happening.


Wouldn't it be just as easy for a planet to slip into this "goldilocks zone" as it would be for one to slip out?

Could be, look at Mars. At one time (4 Billion years ago) they say that the planet had water. However the planet atmosphere became so thin could not sustain its water and eventually it all evaporated or became frozen under its surface. Thats not to say that Mars does not have life in the form of mircrobes.

 

[Magic Man]

How do you know it just happened?

I don't know for sure, but what I do know is that an intelligent creator has been shown to be unnecessary for the universe as it is. And there is no evidence that an intelligent creator was involved, while there is plenty of evidence to suggest that an intelligent creator is just something made up by humans.

I am going to disagree with you on this one. In my thoughts it is impossible for it to have just happened. Its just too complex for it to have just happened.

Yes, in your thoughts, because you're not looking at it objectively. It is not too complex to have just happened and it is indeed quite possible that it happened without an intelligent creator. We know that to be a fact. Also, if the universe is too complex to not have a creator, how is that creator not too complex to itself have a creator?

As for your long sleeve shirt; I don't get your comparison.

The point is I could look at my shirt since it fits me so perfectly, and say "Man, they must have made this shirt specifically for me", when in fact, they didn't. Just like you look at the world and say it must have been made specifically for us, even though it wasn't.

As for life out in the universe, we don't know how much of it is conducive to life or life as we know it. We are making discoveries all the time of extremophiles. Living
organisms that live in enviroments we did not think was possible. There could be life on other planets even in our solar system that live in such conditions.

As well of all the trillions of stars life as we live it can possibly exist in each stars "Goldiocks Zone" (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/02oct_goldilocks/)

If each star has planets in that zone then there are trillions and trillions of planets that could have life.

We already know that there are a lot of stars without planets in that zone. We finally found one that is, but that's out of a lot of others that don't have such a planet. And yes, primitive, single-celled life can exist in extreme conditions, but I'd hardly say that's part of an argument for how perfect God made conditions for life. If the conditions aren't perfect for intelligent life, it's not much different than having a bunch of rocks.

The main point here is that we have this immense universe where an extremely vast majority of it is not conducive to life, probably in the range of 95-98% of it, in fact.

I am not naive when it comes to the creation of the universe. I don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, I don't beleive that the earth or the universe was created in just 7 days but I don't beleive that it just happened, in my mind that is impossible.

Well, that's a start, at least.

 

[gerobbins]

You forgot to answer the second question:

Who/what created god?
​

If you can answer that question then you have all the answers. Or it could be that God always was and is. Truth is, no one can answer that question.

 

[Magic Man]

Objectively? How are you looking at it objectively?

By looking at facts and applying logic and reason to them to form conclusions. It's pretty easy, actually. I don't particularly want anything to be true, so I don't really try to make things fit my pre-conceived notions.