Atheists and God

[tumbleweed41]

If they want to debate it, then they should make a post that counteracts the blog. Then it can come up for debate. I mean really its an opinion from a point of view. Lets have a point of view from the other side. Otherwise, its not worth the bother.

OK

There are many out there nowadays saying they have proof that God does not exist. They use theory of evolution as one source of their claim.

No, Biological Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God.

Why do they find it necessary to shove it down our very throats that there is no God?

Why do Christians find it necessary to shove their concept of God down everyones throats?
See how ridiculous and overgeneralized that sounds?

Very simple, they can’t prove they are right.

There is no need to prove a negative. If they see no evidence of God, it is perfectly reasonable to assume no God exists.

For some reason atheists are in a war to remove God from society.

How can one remove what one does not believe exists?

You see it in our schools where prayer has been banned,

May students pray together in public schools?
Yes. Students are free to pray alone or in
groups, as long as the activity is not disruptive
and does not infringe upon the rights of others.
These activities must be truly voluntary and
student-initiated. For example, students are
permitted to gather around the flagpole for
prayer before school begins, as long as the event
is not sponsored by the school and other
students are not pressured to attend. Students
do not have a right to force a captive audience.
http://www.freedomforum.org/publicat...rentsGuide.pdf



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and where evolution is taught over creationism.

In Science class and biology. Creationism is a religious subject.
There is no scientific evidence supporting Creationism or ID.​

​

​

​

Well?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Did Prayer in school ever hurt anyone?

Only to the extent that it favors one religion or theological concept above all others when it is endorsed by by the school.

Private prayer, you know, the kind actually advocated by Jesus, is quite legal in America and Canada.

Is evolution not theology?

No, Biological Evolution is an observable scientific fact. The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory that helps to explain Biological Evolution.
There are no theological concepts in the scientific Theory of Evolution.

As for money: I am from Canada

ELIZABETH II D. G. REGINA (The initials stand for Dei Gratia)
"Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, Queen."
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[Penumbra]

Okay, I've watched it in its entirety, not for the sake of this thread but because it was interesting in its own right. At no point did Dawkins or anybody else say that evolution disproves the existence of God.

I recommend the video, though. Charles McVety is such a buffoon that he basically lampoons his own religion, and it's kind of funny to watch. It's interesting to note that of all the religious people who spoke, only two really acquitted themselves well, and they were both Muslims. Toward the end there was a Muslim who tried to convince Dawkins that if he couldn't tell his heart to stop beating, that proved the existence of God, but the first two Muslims to speak on the show were by far the most reasonable of the believers present.

I watched it.

The Muslim lady made intelligent responses. The "God is Love" lady dodged an intellectual discussion entirely and the first thing out of her mouth was a huge strawman. She's basically the epitome of a cherry-picking syncretist, but at least her type is typically benign or even helpful. The Christian fundamentalist guy was a hypocritical buffoon that only added value to the discussion by means of being hilariously bad. The atheists did ok, and the Jew didn't say all that much but seemed fairly mediocre.

At one point in the video, Dawkins did say that evolution is the explanation for the existence of life, which is incorrect. Dawkins is merely a professor of biology rather than the man who gets to define what the theory of evolution encompasses, but I bet if someone had decided to pick details with him he would have clarified that a bit. I've only read one of his books so I don't know if that's something he truly believes or not, but I would doubt it and point to the fact that he tends to make simplified statements when given limited time.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There are many out there nowadays saying they have proof that God does not exist.

Are there?

There are many out there nowadays saying they have proof that God does not exist.

Well, if they are, then they're misusing it.

What I fail to understand is why they do think they are so forthright in their conclusions? Why do they find it necessary to shove it down our very throats that there is no God? Very simple, they can’t prove they are right. All one has to do is look around them and see the proof that God is everywhere. It’s in all creation the wonders of the universe and the miracle of life.

Lovely bit of hypocrisy here. They say it's wrong to claim that there is proof of the non-existence of God and to "shove it down people's throats", and then claims that their is proof of the existence of God.

For some reason atheists are in a war to remove God from society. You see it in our schools where prayer has been banned, and where evolution is taught over creationism.

God isn't entirely removed from schools - just your particular God. Having no preference to any particular faith in education is an important part of functioning as a secular society.

Also, the reason evolution being taught over creationism is because evolution is science. Creationism isn't.

For some reason atheists are in a war to remove God from society. You see it in our schools where prayer has been banned, and where evolution is taught over creationism.

And how is this the fault of atheists, exactly?

They seem to want God taken out of every aspect of society.

No, just your God.

What they don’t seem to realize, is they are working at the hands of the enemy and they don’t even know it. A quote from the movie The Usual suspects sums it all: “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”.

I love the fact they use a movie quote rather than the usual Bible verse. Gotta give them credit for that.

The atheists of course don’t believe in the enemy and that’s the way he wants it. Doing his work without them realizing they are doing so. What’s even funnier is they don’t have the slightest idea that God loves them even though they don’t believe in him. They are misguided by today’s society and the world around them.

More ignorant moralizing. Yawn.

Many atheists have been brought up in religious backgrounds and for some reason along they way, they became disillusioned with what they were taught.

Because most of them realized it was hogwash.

Something may have happened to them which made them turn their backs on God and they came to the notion that God does not exist because of that.

Again, hogwash.

Richard Dawkins a British ethnologist, evolutionary biologist, atheist and critic of creationism is a prime example of an atheist misunderstanding of God. His book The God Delusion criticizes organized religion and its beliefs. What he does not seem to realize is that God leads us to whatever faith or religion that will bring us closer to him.

I see a lot of assumptions, but no actual argument.

What Richard Dawkins and atheists are lacking is a personal relationship with God. They are missing out on the pure joy we as Christians have with our relationship with God. They have never truly experienced what it is to have a relationship our Lord.

And what you are missing is a personal relationship with Zeus. You're missing out on the pure joy of our relationship with Zeus.

Every one of us has had their doubts and this is normal, believing in God is not easy.

In most cases, I would say it is.

It takes faith and a lot of patience. However by sinking ourselves into his word will bring us closer to him and give us a better understanding of what he wants for us in our lives. We have to believe everyday that God is working with us to do what is in our own best interests. And by having that personal relationship with him we know that he will never lead us astray.

Yeah, what this whole article states is just a truckload of nothing.

 

[Smoke]

At one point in the video, Dawkins did say that evolution is the explanation for the existence of life, which is incorrect.

Maybe. I don't think it's completely beyond the Pale to think of abiogenesis as having something to do with natural selection. In any case, he didn't say what it was claimed he said.

 

[gerobbins]

Are there?


Well, if they are, then they're misusing it.


Lovely bit of hypocrisy here. They say it's wrong to claim that there is proof of the non-existence of God and to "shove it down people's throats", and then claims that their is proof of the existence of God.


God isn't entirely removed from schools - just your particular God. Having no preference to any particular faith in education is an important part of functioning as a secular society.

Also, the reason evolution being taught over creationism is because evolution is science. Creationism isn't.


And how is this the fault of atheists, exactly?


No, just your God.


I love the fact they use a movie quote rather than the usual Bible verse. Gotta give them credit for that.


More ignorant moralizing. Yawn.


Because most of them realized it was hogwash.


Again, hogwash.


I see a lot of assumptions, but no actual argument.


And what you are missing is a personal relationship with Zeus. You're missing out on the pure joy of our relationship with Zeus.


In most cases, I would say it is.


Yeah, what this whole article states is just a truckload of nothing.

Again, your comments are just an opinion as well. We can both argue till we are blue in the face and it will not get us anywhere. "Convince someone against their will and they will be of the same opinion still" So, agree to disagree. Plain and simple. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.

 

[gerobbins]

ELIZABETH II D. G. REGINA (The initials stand for Dei Gratia)
"Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, Queen."

You know, I never did learn to speak Latin and I never really thought about what that meant.

 

[Wotan]

You know, I never did learn to speak Latin and I never really thought about what that meant.

What you have posted here indicates there is a great deal you "never really thought about."

 

[gerobbins]

No, Biological Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God.

Why do Christians find it necessary to shove their concept of God down everyones throats?
See how ridiculous and overgeneralized that sounds?​

There is no need to prove a negative. If they see no evidence of God, it is perfectly reasonable to assume no God exists.​

How can one remove what one does not believe exists?

​

May students pray together in public schools?

Yes. Students are free to pray alone or in

groups, as long as the activity is not disruptive
and does not infringe upon the rights of others.
These activities must be truly voluntary and
student-initiated. For example, students are
permitted to gather around the flagpole for
prayer before school begins, as long as the event
is not sponsored by the school and other
students are not pressured to attend. Students
do not have a right to force a captive audience.
http://www.freedomforum.org/publications/first/findingcommonground/B12.ParentsGuide.pdf​

​

​

​

In Science class and biology. Creationism is a religious subject.​

There is no scientific evidence supporting Creationism or ID.​

The rest of your article is equally baseless claptrap that assumes Atheists are working for Satan unwittingly and they all need to come back to God.​

​

But thanks for the laugh...​

​

Thank you for the laugh as well. Let me ask you this. If the majority of North Americans believe in God, they why do they have to bow down to your non belief?

As for seeing the evidence of God? Look all around you. Its everywhere around you.

Lets take example our own planet.

The Earth is at the perfect distance from the sun to support life. Any closer our oceans would vapourize any closer they would freeze.

The moon is at the perfect distance from the earth, its orbit rises and falls the tides. Without the tides our oceans would become stagnant.

The axis of the earth is at just the right degrees to cause the change of the seasons.

Jupiter, the largest planet is the perfect size and orbit to protect the earth from rogue comets.

This is just a small example. Did the earth just come into existence by chance?

They have just discovered another planet that could most likely support life.

They figure there could be more and more out there. This has to be engineered.

http://www.dotsperiod.com/639/new-planet-discovered-2010-called-gliese-581g-can-it-sustain-life/

Or Did all this just happen? Or was it created?

 

[Wotan]

Thank you for the laugh as well. Let me ask you this. If the majority of North Americans believe in God, they why do they have to bow down to your non belief?

As for seeing the evidence of God? Look all around you. Its everywhere around you.

Lets take example our own planet.

The Earth is at the perfect distance from the sun to support life. Any closer our oceans would vaporize any closer they would freeze.

The moon is at the perfect distance from the earth, its orbit rises and falls the tides. Without the tides our oceans would become stagnant.

The axis of the earth is at just the right degrees to cause the change of the seasons.

Jupiter, the largest planet is the perfect size and orbit to protect the earth from rogue comets.

They have just discovered another planet that could most likely support life. Did all this just happen? Or was it created?

And the above is a good example of things you "never thought about."

Yes, it did just happen. As we can now see there are MANY planets out there. And we have evolved on THIS one to fit the conditions here. Life adapts to the world it finds. There are creatures living near volcanic gas jets at the bottom of the ocean. An environment that would instantly kill any organism that lives on the earth's surface. But those critters just love that hot acid and tremendous pressure. And wouldn't they think how miraculous it is that out of vast ocean floor there just happens to be these warm life protecting jets that are just RIGHT for them. How god must love them to make the ocean floor so nice.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Let me ask you this. If the majority of North Americans believe in God, they why do they have to bow down to your non belief?

I believe in God. And I ask no one to bow down to it.
As for Atheists, they ask no one to bow down to a lack of belief.
Your statement is nonsensical.

As for seeing the evidence of God? Look all around you. Its everywhere around you.

Lets take example our own planet.

The Earth is at the perfect distance from the sun to support life. Any closer our oceans would vapourize any closer they would freeze.

The moon is at the perfect distance from the earth, its orbit rises and falls the tides. Without the tides our oceans would become stagnant.

The axis of the earth is at just the right degrees to cause the change of the seasons.

Jupiter, the largest planet is the perfect size and orbit to protect the earth from rogue comets.

This is just a small example. Did the earth just come into existence by chance?

They have just discovered another planet that could most likely support life.

They figure there could be more and more out there. This has to be engineered.

New Planet Discovered 2010 Called Gliese 581g: Can It Sustain Life? | Dots Period

Or Did all this just happen? Or was it created?

Are the dead planets in our Solar System evidence of design?
Really? All you have done with your "evidence of design" claim is made a subjective assertion. My challenge to you is to find objective evidence of design.

Can you do it?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, “This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!”

Douglas Adams

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Did Prayer in school ever hurt anyone?

Erosion of rights may not directly, physically hurt people, but it does harm them.

Is evolution not theology? (although in my thoughts evolution is part of Creation a topic to be discussed later)

No, it's not. You can tell because it doesn't mention any gods.

As a Christian it is not my right to pass judgment on gay people.

No... it's only your right to pass judgement on atheists, apparently.

Charles McVety is such a buffoon that he basically lampoons his own religion, and it's kind of funny to watch.

Charles McVety is the self-appointed representative of the religious right in Canada. He gets trotted out by TV news shows when they want a "balanced" spectrum of views on religious issues, usually around election time. AFAICT, he's otherwise irrelevant.

 

[ninerbuff]

Atheists don't believe in religion. Religion is based on the premise that god exists. The burden of proof that god exists is on the religious.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

The burden on atheists is that if God really does exist they are possibly denying themselves much freedom, love, and joy that wise prophets declare and confidently attest to.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

The burden on atheists is that if God really does exist they are possibly denying themselves much freedom, love, and joy that wise prophets declare and confidently attest to.

I prefer ice cream. It's tastier and more real.

 

[ninerbuff]

The burden on atheists is that if God really does exist they are possibly denying themselves much freedom, love, and joy that wise prophets declare and confidently attest to.

I have much love, freedom and joy without god. I find no burden here.

 

[HonestJoe]

Let me ask you this. If the majority of North Americans believe in God, they why do they have to bow down to your non belief?

Nobody is saying anyone has to "bow down to non-belief". The argument is that nobody should be forced to bow down to anyone or anything.

Students (and teachers for that matter) are perfectly free to believe in any god they wish and follow any religious practices they wish to as long as they don't disrupt the functioning of the school. What is not permitted is for any religious practice to be imposed upon anyone at the school. I would hope you can see this as a good thing.

As for seeing the evidence of God? Look all around you. Its everywhere around you.

I disagree that what we see around us is proof of God.

The "perfect Earth" example you give doesn't really prove anything. There are billions of planets, the vast majority of which aren't in any way suitable for life. It would be more suspicious if none of those planets happened to fall within the parameters to (potentially) support it.

Even if we did accept that this couldn't have happened naturally, all you would have demonstrated is that some form of intelligence would have been involved at some point in the development of this planet. There is absolutely nothing to say that intelligence must be a god, let alone that it must be the very specifically defined God you are thinking of.

Or Did all this just happen? Or was it created?

I think it just happened. What do you think about the existence of another planet which could also support life? How does it fit in the religious ideas that this planet was formed specially for the purposes of supporting (our) life?

 

[HonestJoe]

The burden on atheists is that if God really does exist they are possibly denying themselves much freedom, love, and joy that wise prophets declare and confidently attest to.

That's a twist on the flawed Pascal's Wager. Basically, it's no more of a problem of atheists as theists.

You can't know you're worshiping the right god in the right way. Loads of people have confidently attested to a huge range of deities with an even wider range of rules, requirements and expectations, typically with promises of great things for those who obey and grave penalties for those who don't.

Any given theist is failing to meet the requirements of almost all of those proposed gods. Add in the possibility that a god exists but doesn't want all the worship and praying so will be giving good things to those who don't do any of that and theists are in no better position than atheists.

 

[Magic Man]

Again, your comments are just an opinion as well. We can both argue till we are blue in the face and it will not get us anywhere. "Convince someone against their will and they will be of the same opinion still" So, agree to disagree. Plain and simple. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.

Then maybe you shouldn't come on a site about religion and start a thread in the "Religious Debates" section sharing your uninformed and extremely biased view, and asking for responses from people.