Atheists and God

[Falvlun]

Thats your opinion. You see you are just as bad when it comes to something you believe or don't believe in. The same could be said about you in any claims you make. Its all a matter of opinion.

Ok, so why do you want to force your opinion upon us?

Why do you want kids to have to pray in school?
Why do you want Creationism taught when it is theology-- an opinion-- and not science?
Why do you (ok, maybe not you, but many Christians in America) want to force their opinion on morality upon gay people's lives?
Why do you (general you) want us to have "In God we Trust" on our money and "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thats your opinion.

Yes... an opinion that you asked for.

You see you are just as bad when it comes to something you believe or don't believe in. The same could be said about you in any claims you make. Its all a matter of opinion.

Really? Smoke's a pretty smart guy. I don't think you'd find any claim of his that's as laughably and obviously false as this one:

There are many out there nowadays saying they have proof that God does not exist. They use theory of evolution as one source of their claim.

- who are this "many" that you describe? Can you give some examples of them saying what you claim they do?

- can you give even one example of an actual atheist "using the theory of evolution as one source of their claim" that God does not exist?

 

[waitasec]

Yes... an opinion that you asked for.


Really? Smoke's a pretty smart guy. I don't think you'd find any claim of his that's as laughably and obviously false as this one:


- who are this "many" that you describe? Can you give some examples of them saying what you claim they do?

- can you give even one example of an actual atheist "using the theory of evolution as one source of their claim" that God does not exist?

don't be surprised if he used fox news as a source

 

[Falvlun]

- can you give even one example of an actual atheist "using the theory of evolution as one source of their claim" that God does not exist?

Well, in all fairness, we did have a spate of holy roller atheists there for a while that would use evolution as "proof" that God doesn't exist. But most of us would jump on 'em pretty quickly.

 

[gerobbins]

Yes... an opinion that you asked for.


Really? Smoke's a pretty smart guy. I don't think you'd find any claim of his that's as laughably and obviously false as this one:


- who are this "many" that you describe? Can you give some examples of them saying what you claim they do?

- can you give even one example of an actual atheist "using the theory of evolution as one source of their claim" that God does not exist?

Ok since you want to debate further on:

He uses that claim and others as well.

Index - Welcome - RichardDawkins.net

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Ok since you want to debate further on:

He uses that claim and others as well.

Index - Welcome - RichardDawkins.net

Please provide the exact quote and source please.

 

[waitasec]

Ok since you want to debate further on:

He uses that claim and others as well.

Index - Welcome - RichardDawkins.net

well what about this clown...
Pat Robertson Quotes - Stupid Pat Robertson Quotes

10. "Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court." –Pat Robertson

9. "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." –Pat Robertson

8. "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." –Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld

7. "(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

6. "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." –Pat Robertson

5. "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected him from your city. And don't wonder why he hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for his help because he might not be there." --Pat Robertson, after the city of Dover, Pennsylvania voted to boot the current school board, which instituted an intelligent design policy that led to a federal trial

4. "God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ... He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'" --Pat Robertson, on why Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke

3. "Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up" –Pat Robertson, on nuking the State Department

2. "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." –Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

1. "It may be a blessing in disguise. ... Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. Haitians were originally under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal. Ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other." –Pat Robertson, on the earthquake in Haiti that destroyed the capital and killed tens of thousands of people, Jan. 13, 2010

:biglaugh:

so lame...

 

[Falvlun]

Ok since you want to debate further on:

He uses that claim and others as well.

Index - Welcome - RichardDawkins.net

Do you have anything a little more... specific? That's a large website to have to sift through.

Anyway, I'm willing to wager you interpreted Dawkins incorrectly. Evolution is merely the mechanism by which organisms change over time (and how we got the diversity of life seen on Earth today.) At most, it simply shows that animals evolved to their present forms, and were not magically poofed into existence. This is only troublesome for a very literal and narrow interpretation of how God created the separate life-forms on planet Earth. As Autodidact loves reiterating, it's about HOW not WHO.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, in all fairness, we did have a spate of holy roller atheists there for a while that would use evolution as "proof" that God doesn't exist. But most of us would jump on 'em pretty quickly.

Even in those cases, I don't recall ever seeing anyone claim that evolution proved no God.

I've seen people claim that evolution shows that we aren't the deliberate creation of a god, but that's not the same thing.

Please provide the exact quote and source please.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[gerobbins]

Ok, so why do you want to force your opinion upon us?

Why do you want kids to have to pray in school?
Why do you want Creationism taught when it is theology-- an opinion-- and not science?
Why do you (ok, maybe not you, but many Christians in America) want to force their opinion on morality upon gay people's lives?
Why do you (general you) want us to have "In God we Trust" on our money and "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience?

Did Prayer in school ever hurt anyone?
Is evolution not theology? (although in my thoughts evolution is part of Creation a topic to be discussed later)
As for gay people its not only religious people that are anti-gay. And in my thoughts anyone who is anti-gay are either scared of gay people are they just don't understand that basics of their gay people's natural instincts.
As a Christian it is not my right to pass judgment on gay people. As a matter of fact I have a Uncle Mike and Aunt Tom who have been around since I was born. A good friend of mine was gay (he passed away some 5 years ago) did I care? not in the least. He was my friend.


As for money: I am from Canada

 

[gerobbins]

Do you have anything a little more... specific? That's a large website to have to sift through.

Anyway, I'm willing to wager you interpreted Dawkins incorrectly. Evolution is merely the mechanism by which organisms change over time (and how we got the diversity of life seen on Earth today.) At most, it simply shows that animals evolved to their present forms, and were not magically poofed into existence. This is only troublesome for a very literal and narrow interpretation of how God created the separate life-forms on planet Earth. As Autodidact loves reiterating, it's about HOW not WHO.

Root of all Evil? - CBC Debate#

 

[Smoke]

Thats your opinion. You see you are just as bad when it comes to something you believe or don't believe in. The same could be said about you in any claims you make. Its all a matter of opinion.

Evolution doesn't prove there's no god, and anybody who thinks it does is an idiot. It does prove that the biblical account of creation isn't literally true, but that's not the same thing as proving there's no god. Millions of Christians who believe in god but also recognize the fact of evolution testify to that.

While it's possible that the author has encountered atheists who make such a claim -- there are idiot atheists, after all -- I doubt he's encountered many. More likely, they may have said that evolution proves that all the crap they learned in church wasn't true, but again -- that's not the same as proving there's no god.

 

[Falvlun]

Did Prayer in school ever hurt anyone?

How would you like to be forced to say in school, everyday, "God does not exist."?
Or, perhaps a little more realistic, how would you like to be required to get a mat, and bow down towards Mecca 5 times a day?

Is forcing someone to perform a religious ritual that they don't believe or agree with a good thing?

Is evolution not theology? (although in my thoughts evolution is part of Creation a topic to be discussed later)

No. It is a scientific theory, supported by mountains of scientific evidence, that explains how the diversity of life on earth has formed. You will find nothing about God in the entire thing, which is kinda a requirement for theology.

As for gay people its not only religious people that are anti-gay. And in my thoughts anyone who is anti-gay are either scared of gay people are they just don't understand that basics of their gay people's natural instincts.
As a Christian it is not my right to pass judgment on gay people. As a matter of fact I have a Uncle Mike and Aunt Tom who have been around since I was born. A good friend of mine was gay (he passed away some 5 years ago) did I care? not in the least. He was my friend.

I am glad you are open-minded about gay people.

However, your openmindedness, and the existence of people with nonreligious reasons for their homophobia, does not negate the fact that a major driving force in the anti-gay campaign is made by the religious, with religious reasons.

The question still stands: Why are religious people able to force their religiously derived morals upon those who do not practice their religion?

 

[Smoke]

Root of all Evil? - CBC Debate#

Posting a link to a 41-minute video isn't an answer to whether Dawkins actually said what you claim. If he did, quote him, or at least direct the reader to the part of the video where he said it.

 

[Falvlun]

Root of all Evil? - CBC Debate#

Sorry, that's 40 minutes long, and the first bit is about whether religions are responsible for the majority of conflict in our world. Do you have a time when they start talking about evolution?

 

[Tristesse]

Did Prayer in school ever hurt anyone?

Depends on what you mean by hurt, but it certainly didn't help anything.

Is evolution not theology? (although in my thoughts evolution is part of Creation a topic to be discussed later)

No! It's not, it's a scientific theory.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry, that's 40 minutes long, and the first bit is about whether religions are responsible for the majority of conflict in our world. Do you have a time when they start talking about evolution?

Okay, I've watched it in its entirety, not for the sake of this thread but because it was interesting in its own right. At no point did Dawkins or anybody else say that evolution disproves the existence of God.

I recommend the video, though. Charles McVety is such a buffoon that he basically lampoons his own religion, and it's kind of funny to watch. It's interesting to note that of all the religious people who spoke, only two really acquitted themselves well, and they were both Muslims. Toward the end there was a Muslim who tried to convince Dawkins that if he couldn't tell his heart to stop beating, that proved the existence of God, but the first two Muslims to speak on the show were by far the most reasonable of the believers present.

 

[Falvlun]

Okay, I've watched it in its entirety, not for the sake of this thread but because it was interesting in its own right. At no point did Dawkins or anybody else say that evolution disproves the existence of God.

I recommend the video, though. Charles McVety is such a buffoon that he basically lampoons his own religion, and it's kind of funny to watch. It's interesting to note that of all the religious people who spoke, only two really acquitted themselves well, and they were both Muslims. Toward the end there was a Muslim who tried to convince Dawkins that if he couldn't tell his heart to stop beating, that proved the existence of God, but the first two Muslims to speak on the show were by far the most reasonable of the believers present.

I just finished watching the whole thing myself as well-- I got sucked in by the great debate between real live people (it's wonderful talking to ya'll, but it would be nice to take this stuff to the streets, so to speak.)

And yes, I coroborate: Nothing about evolution disproving the existence of God. In fact, there wasn't much about evolution in there at all.

 

[Eliot Wild]

It's interesting to note that of all the religious people who spoke, only two really acquitted themselves well, and they were both Muslims. Toward the end there was a Muslim who tried to convince Dawkins that if he couldn't tell his heart to stop beating, that proved the existence of God, but the first two Muslims to speak on the show were by far the most reasonable of the believers present.

Ha, I thought the same exact thing. I didn't watch the entire video, but that's only because I got sidetracked with something else and just couldn't sit and finish it. Damn work getting in the way of my time and ability to play online!! But I did get to watch long enough to see the Muslim lady from Canada, Canadian Muslim Women's Coalition, or something like that. She certainly gave a better response than the two individuals who spoke prior to her.

Anyway, I just thought I'd pass that along. And when I have more time, I would be interested in seeing the entire video. I suppose I should really watch the documentary preceding it as well.

Oh, I did think the host, from what little I could observe, had an irritating habit of putting words in other people's mouths. I realize he was probably forced to move things along and keep people from rambling. But he kept saying, "It sounds like you're on the verge of saying blah, blah, blah . . . " Ehh, maybe it's just me, but I found that annoying.

 

[Wotan]

Just for the record Robbie dear, ToE is a scientific theory rather like the Germ Theory of Disease or the Theory of Gravity. Such ideas are the best explanation currently known to explain observed phenomenon. Such theories make predictions and when those predictions are confirmed by actual observation and/or experiment the theory is strengthen. When a theory has made MANY such predictions and when NO competing explanation for the phenomenon in question can found the theory is considered accepted.

BUT

It is NOT proven. Proof only applies to math formal logic and whiskey. Science is about EVIDENCE. NO scientific theory has any thing to say at ALL about any supernatural phenomenon. Science cannot and does not deal with the supernatural.

ALL science, including ToE, is silent on the question of any god(s) existence.

Try to comprehend that. If you do you will see that any suggestion that ToE is a theology is absurd. And ignorant. On its face.