Atheists have faith.

[TransmutingSoul]

I see a whole bunch of posts later you still fail to understand that being an atheist means we don't believe in or need God(s) help and especially not "faith" to be decent people.

Which is just faith in another chosen path. I see there is more proof that our morals come from a spiritual source, as when it is left entirly to men to. Choose what is virtue and morality, we become worse then animals.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Religious people have beliefs that anyone who has any morals or ethics and is a decent human being must have gotten them from God. And believe that somewhere deep inside those atheists really do believe that their goodness has to come from faith in God whether they know it or not.

It is obvious many athiest would not consider that.

This OP offers the choice.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

They obviously dont want to waste their time.

Bar, precisely, prevent, that is the way the men have set it up

The understanding of this law also requires an understanding of the Baha'i Administrative Order, where there is no Top positions. Service by individuals at a local level is the greatest service to this faith we can aspire to, and this can lead to service on an elected body, or in an appointed role, if other believers have seen that is appropriate.

I see the greatest opportunity for service is at the local level, that is where as a Baha'i I pray to serve.

As in this age, rank is seen as power and prestige, I see this age is not ready for this concept, that one does not have to aspire to power and prestige, as that power lays within individual selfless service and not that one got elected or appointed to an local or national body, or appointed to a local or national role.

Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

The understanding of this law also requires an understanding of the Baha'i Administrative Order, where there is no Top positions. Service by individuals at a local level is the greatest service to this faith we can aspire to, and this can lead to service on an elected body, or in an appointed role, if other believers have seen that is appropriate.

I see the greatest opportunity for service is at the local level, that is where as a Baha'i I pray to serve.

As in this age, rank is seen as power and prestige, I see this age is not ready for this concept, that one does not have to aspire to power and prestige, as that power lays within individual selfless service and not that one got elected or appointed to an local or national body, or appointed to a local or national role.

Regards Tony

Yet women are still barred.

 

[CG Didymus]

The new name is not only mentioned in Revelation.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The Bible says he would come with a new name, so we know he would not be called Jesus. The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man. Why would Jesus change his name if he wanted people to know He was Jesus? Sadly, Christians do not bother to think about what these verses actually mean -- what the Spirit saith unto the churches -- yet they have completely disregarded what the Spirit said because they STILL believe that the same Jesus is going to come down from heaven on the clouds.

Yes and the "new name" is a very good verse for Baha'is to quote. But I still think it would have been nice for Baha'u'llah to have claimed to be the "Lamb" also. But, he didn't. The "Lamb" seems like none other that Jesus. So too many things left up in the air. But this is what I wanted Tony to answer...

Jesus also said that True Prophets would again come

Where did Jesus say that? Who are these "True Prophets" that Tony thinks that Jesus said would come again?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know about the "new name" thing in Revelation, but where did Jesus say that "True Prophets" would come again?

There is a few places where Jesus gives the signs of a True Prophet.

We can also consider that is what is awaited by many Christians.

I see so much time has been wasted on proving every prophet is false, that no time is spent on determining the True.

I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

This is talking of Prophets as it offers there has been many false prophets, but the true one will confess that Jesus came in the flesh, that Jesus was Christ (Annointed One), Annointed of the Holy Spirit, given of God

So the Antichrist are those that do not see Jesus is the Christ, Annointed of God with the Holy Spirit. They have taken on the station of a prophet, by giving their own version of Jesus, they are the many false prophets.

So a Baha'i will offer that Jesus came in flesh, was (Christ) Annointed of the Holy Spirit, so the flesh Jesus was Christ, the 'Self of God'.

The Bible offers those that can confess that, are of God and the only way we can do this is to understand who Jesus was.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes and the "new name" is a very good verse for Baha'is to quote. But I still think it would have been nice for Baha'u'llah to have claimed to be the "Lamb" also. But, he didn't. The "Lamb" seems like none other that Jesus. So too many things left up in the air. But this is what I wanted Tony to answer...

It does not matter who the Lamb is because Revelation is not referring to Jesus since Jesus is not coming back to earth.

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes and the "new name" is a very good verse for Baha'is to quote. But I still think it would have been nice for Baha'u'llah to have claimed to be the "Lamb" also. But, he didn't. The "Lamb" seems like none other that Jesus.

It has been offered that that the Bab was the Lamb in this age, and also the Gate who was the Elijah for Baha'u'llah, who was the Glory of God, the shepherd of the One fold.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes and the "new name" is a very good verse for Baha'is to quote. But I still think it would have been nice for Baha'u'llah to have claimed to be the "Lamb" also. But, he didn't. The "Lamb" seems like none other that Jesus. So too many things left up in the air. But this is what I wanted Tony to answer...
Where did Jesus say that? Who are these "True Prophets" that Tony thinks that Jesus said would come again?

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah have all confessed that the flesh Jesus was annointed of the Holy Spirit and was a Messenger from God.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus also said that True Prophets would again come, and that only those that accepted the New Name would see that to be so. Regards Tony

I can agree because Jesus gave his instructions (Not to atheists) but to his true followers at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes and the "new name" ..........Where did Jesus say that? Who are these "True Prophets" that Tony thinks that Jesus said would come again?

Jesus (the Lamb) could have had in mind the words of Joel 2:28-29,32 since the time of Pentecost at Acts of the Apostles 2:16-18,21. They would be the genuine ' wheat' separated from the fake 'weed/tares' followers of Jesus.
They would carry out Jesus instructions to internationally tell about God's kingdom - Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14.
The mention of the New Name is found at Revelation 3:12 B; Revelation 14:1.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It does not matter who the Lamb is because Revelation is not referring to Jesus since Jesus is not coming back to earth.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

True, the world would behold Jesus No more but as the Christian congregation has Jesus as un-seen Head.
The world will 'see and feel' Jesus' effects as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
I find Jesus is the Lamb as found at Revelation 5:6; 5:12-13; 6:1; 6:16; 7:9-10,14; 7:17; 12:11; 13:8,11; 14:1,4,10; 15:3; 17:14; 19:7,9; 21:9,14, 22-23,27; 22:1-3

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He also said he would return soon.

Yes, return as soon as the proclaiming about God's kingdom would be international in scope - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Jesus would first go away to a far place (heaven) according to Jesus at Luke 19:11-15.
In other words, Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21 would have both a 'minor' and a MAJOR fulfillment.
The 'minor' fulfillment came upon un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 70. The MAJOR is for our day or time frame.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

True, the world would behold Jesus No more but as the Christian congregation has Jesus as un-seen Head.
The world will 'see and feel' Jesus' effects as found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
I find Jesus is the Lamb as found at Revelation 5:6; 5:12-13; 6:1; 6:16; 7:9-10,14; 7:17; 12:11; 13:8,11; 14:1,4,10; 15:3; 17:14; 19:7,9; 21:9,14, 22-23,27; 22:1-3

Revelation is about what will unfold in the future.

I see all Messengers give their lives, so that all humanity can prosper, so it can be seen they one and all are the Lamb.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation is about what will unfold in the future.
I see all Messengers give their lives, so that all humanity can prosper, so it can be seen they one and all are the Lamb.Regards Tony

If you read the verses I posted from Revelation there the Lamb is: Jesus.
However, yes the Messengers who are resurrected to Heaven are like the people of Revelation 2:10; 20:6; 5:9-10.
They are like the people of Luke 22:28-30, and called to be as ' saints or holy ones ' as found at Daniel 7:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation is about what will unfold in the future.

Yes, about the future because Jesus action found at Revelation 19:14-15 is still ahead of us.
'Healing' for earth's nations is still to unfold in the future as per Revelation 22:2.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and undo all the sickness and damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.

 

[John53]

Yes, return as soon as the proclaiming about God's kingdom would be international in scope - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Jesus would first go away to a far place (heaven) according to Jesus at Luke 19:11-15.
In other words, Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21 would have both a 'minor' and a MAJOR fulfillment.
The 'minor' fulfillment came upon un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 70. The MAJOR is for our day or time frame.

It's all in the interpretation, it can mean whatever you want.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's all in the interpretation, it can mean whatever you want.

Just try to convince a Christian of that logical fact. I have been trying for nine years and they cannot seem to understand what I am saying about interpretation. It is as if there is only ONE interpretation, theirs, and theirs is the one they want.

 

[John53]

Just try to convince a Christian of that logical fact. I have been trying for nine years and they cannot seem to understand what I am saying about interpretation. It is as if there is only ONE interpretation, theirs, and theirs is the one they want.

I know the struggle

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It's all in the interpretation, it can mean whatever you want.

To me it means Just what Jesus said it meant at Luke 19:11-15. What did Jesus' words mean to you ___________