~Amin~
God is the King
You can fool yourself into believing this to be true
thats up to you.
Have you heard of the stem cell discovery?
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Atheists:what does a book gotta have to prove its God's
- Thread starter ~Amin~
- Start date
thats up to you.
Have you heard of the stem cell discovery?
Why would belief in the existence of God automatically require belief in the necessity of God?
~Amin~
God is the King
How can you believe in the existence of God and not
believe nessesarely He created?
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
HA! Even God can't help you there, my friend. :sorry1:
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
By being non-theistic.
Belief in the necessity of God requires a person to believe that if God did not exist, then neither could the universe. There are many ideas of God where this does not have to be the case.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
And even believing in the necessity of God is possible without believing in God-as-Creator, as pantheism and panentheism clearly demonstrate.
McBell
Unbound
I am not fooling my self at all.
The fact is that there are several scientific explanations for the existance of the universe that do not rely upon your "God did it" theory.
Your liking or not liking this fact does not change or influence the fact in any way.
However, it does seem as though you are making the assumption that just because I acknowledge the fact that these scientific explanations exist, that I agree with them.
THEN you are further assuming that that agreement with said fact is incompatible with not being an atheist.
What about stem cell discovery?
Are you going to once again show how you excel at using the forer effect?
I have no idea.
However, I suspect that this one of the things he will not address.
Because God is not needed to explain how the world began.
This, I suspect, is his problem.
Or at least part of it.
He seems to think that if God does not exist, that we could not exist.
Therefore, God has to exist.
and it seems that this belief has been integrated so deeply into his brain that he cannot even begin to comprehend how someone can disagree with it.
~Amin~
God is the King
How what do you mean?God himself..
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
What a wise first comment :sarcastic
So you think the book needs to have an url in it...WOW
dorsk188
One-Eyed in Blindsville
The possibilities are endless (for my personal belief):
1. A previously undiscovered page that explains to me specifically why everything in my life has happened the way it has. Also, what I should do with the rest of it. Seriously, though... detail matters. Also, penmenship counts.
2. The book should be handed to me by the god himself/herself. Instead of reading it, we get to talk. I'm not demanding. I don't need magic tricks. Just rational, acceptable answers to a few questions. Couldn't hurt if it was a she, and we hit it off...
3. Magic spells that allow people to do things that defy scientific explanations. You know, fireballs, alchemy, time travel... all at the same time... (Pop into existance at the Battle of the Bulge holding a lead sculpture of a fireball...)
Okay, I was being disingenious... I don't think a book could, without having some interactive component (that didn't require belief beforehand) in which the creator could clarify, etc. Why would a creator of all men, who wanted to make personal contact with his creations, only deliver his truth to one small group, rendering them incapable (and uninterested) in conquering the language and cultural barriers in an effort to spread that message?
Moreover, if the message states that the all-just creator routinely does things that I personally find abhorant, no dice. If god exists, he is more loving than I am. If god exists, he would stop the suffering that I can't. He doesn't, so he isn't.
1. A previously undiscovered page that explains to me specifically why everything in my life has happened the way it has. Also, what I should do with the rest of it. Seriously, though... detail matters. Also, penmenship counts.
2. The book should be handed to me by the god himself/herself. Instead of reading it, we get to talk. I'm not demanding. I don't need magic tricks. Just rational, acceptable answers to a few questions. Couldn't hurt if it was a she, and we hit it off...
3. Magic spells that allow people to do things that defy scientific explanations. You know, fireballs, alchemy, time travel... all at the same time... (Pop into existance at the Battle of the Bulge holding a lead sculpture of a fireball...)
Okay, I was being disingenious... I don't think a book could, without having some interactive component (that didn't require belief beforehand) in which the creator could clarify, etc. Why would a creator of all men, who wanted to make personal contact with his creations, only deliver his truth to one small group, rendering them incapable (and uninterested) in conquering the language and cultural barriers in an effort to spread that message?
Moreover, if the message states that the all-just creator routinely does things that I personally find abhorant, no dice. If god exists, he is more loving than I am. If god exists, he would stop the suffering that I can't. He doesn't, so he isn't.
~Amin~
God is the King
No calamity befalls on the earth or in
yourselves but it is inscribed in the
book of Decrees before We bring it into
existence. Verily, that is easy for God. Qur'an 57,22.
He does, prophets are just a cause through which God hands you the Book.
Its not just a Book, i promise you have a relationship with God.
That's the easy part.
I don't know about that, but depending on your sincerity you WILL be
SHOWN amazing things.
The Qur'an is for ALL mankind not a group, the message
is easily spread no difficulties.
Please define suffering?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Why does it have to be a book? Why not an audio cassette, or a DVD?
Mr Spinkles
Mr
The caveat "depending on your sincerity" is awfully convenient.~Amin~ said:
You know, Penn and Teller can show us amazing things whether we are "sincere" or not.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
No doubt. There are verses saying something like, "God will purposefully hide the truth from the insincere." That way, anytime someone doesn't believe or claims not to know the truth, it's always that person's own fault for being insincere. By implication, there can be no sincere nonbelievers.
That also applies to the so-called "challenge" issued for anyone to find a mistake in the Qu'ran. If anyone claims to find a mistake, it's because the person has had the truth hidden because he had impure motives, and the "no mistakes" claim conveniently holds.
dorsk188
One-Eyed in Blindsville
REALLY?! Wow... oh... wait... it doesn't say: "dorsk188, don't trust your neighbor, Marty, with the plants when you go out of town, he will forget to water them." in here... Not specific enough for me.
I am sort of dumb when it comes to religious texts, but does this quote say that information like Marty's Eventual Horti-Betrayal is actually in a book, but that we can't see it, because it is fate? In that case, my atheism is ruled by fate. Fine with me.
Nope. Read my post. Gotta meet the man (or the lady) or the levitating pasta creature myself. Moreover, let me tell you a quick story. I was in a bus station the other day, and a bunch of missionaries handed out pamphlets and attempted to convert people while they waited for their bus. All of them (at least 20) ignored the homeless guy, sleeping in the corner. The guy could obviously use a good meal and a new pair of pants (and a left shoe), but he was invisible to them. At the very least, I would expect a god to tend to that poor fella first. Moreover, most missionary-types aren't very intelligent about many things, including their own faith (from my experience). That said, I might have been convinced by a contemporary, like the dozens of messiahs in ancient Jeruselam, if he had been persuasive enough. I tend to have an open mind about any possibility. (Something that frequently is a liability, actually.)
Are you there god, it's me dorsk188? No response. Any conversation where you have to believe first could be a delusion. (Voices in your head that you don't believe in, you should get checked out, could still be a delusion. But, I, like always, keep my mind open.)
Not if you read the Abrahamic religions' texts.
Why would I trust that I will find evidence for god only after I don't want any? If I said: I will believe for a year, and after that year, if I have not seen any evidence, I will cease to believe... you would doubt my sincerity (rightfully so). There is no control for false positives. I have tried, exceptionally hard to believe, and I got nothing from it. (That's about as much as I want to delve into my prior beliefs in this thread, though.)
Supposedly the same god as the Jews had, eh? Why did they coexist with people with other gods? Why did they war with them? Why did they become conquered by them? All this time, god never told them to focus their attention on spreading their belief, because every Egyptian and every Babylonian is going to hell, so hurry and save them? Not really. god acted like any other patron god. "My guys and your guys. My guys will win."
The attacks on Sept. 11th were completely unnecessary. Many died and were injured. Many became sick. Many lost their loved ones. There was no need. If god created a NEED for that, in some great plan we cannot understand, than he does not deserve my praise (and I would argue, yours either).
Birth defects, childhood diseases, such as cancer. Even something as specific as a Filarial Worm (a parasite transmitted by mosquitoes that can cause leprosy and elephantiasis) or the Guinea Worm (for more info, Wiki it.)
I repeat: If a god creates Guinea Worms, he is not worthy of my praise. If a god exists that can put a stop to Guinea Worms but does not, he is not worthy of my praise.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
Lots of other creatures repeat: If a god creates humans, he is not worthy of my praise. If a god exists that can put a stop to humans but does not, he is not worthy of my praise.
Smoke
Done here.
Actually, a two thousand year old DVD would be a lot more impressive, even if the content were as error-riddled and nonsensical as the average sacred text.