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Atheists:what does a book gotta have to prove its God's

E

eudaimonia

Fellowship of Reason
~Amin~ said:
To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?
Click to expand...

It would have to explain the world in a truly amazing way that can be verified by carefully examining the world. No holy book that I am aware of does this.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
BucephalusBB

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Besides, if there really was a god, and appareantly he wanted to show himself to me (as you are searching for a book that could convince me), he would definately use another way than a book.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
There is no way a book can prove that it was written by God. In fact, if God Itself were standing right in front of me, claiming to be God, there would be no way for God to prove to me that It's God. No matter what God did, the possibility would always exist that I'm tricking myself into experiencing what I'm experiencing, or that I'm being tricked into it by something other than a God. It would require omniscience to prove the existence of God, beyond reasonable doubt.
 
E

eudaimonia

Fellowship of Reason
PureX said:
There is no way a book can prove that it was written by God. In fact, if God Itself were standing right in front of me, claiming to be God, there would be no way for God to prove to me that It's God. No matter what God did, the possibility would always exist that I'm tricking myself into experiencing what I'm experiencing, or that I'm being tricked into it by something other than a God. It would require omniscience to prove the existence of God, beyond reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the situation is quite as bad as this.

When I go to work, I generally don't worry about whether or not I'm being tricked by demons or space aliens into experiencing an illusion of myself going to work. I accept that I do "beyond reasonable doubt". Not beyond any doubt, but certainly beyond a reasonable one.

Likewise, a God might not be able to prove to me beyond any doubt that he is not simply an illusion created by space aliens, but the demonstration of power or knowledge could perhaps be great enough that it may be reasonable to think that this is actually a God.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
PureX said:
There is no way a book can prove that it was written by God. In fact, if God Itself were standing right in front of me, claiming to be God, there would be no way for God to prove to me that It's God. No matter what God did, the possibility would always exist that I'm tricking myself into experiencing what I'm experiencing, or that I'm being tricked into it by something other than a God. It would require omniscience to prove the existence of God, beyond reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...
IMO, convincing humans of His existence would be completely within the scope of powers of an omnipotent deity.

Disbelievers don't believe for one of two possible reasons:
- the omnipotent deity exists, but hasn't chosen to convince them of His existence, or
- no omnipotent deities exist.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
angellous_evangellous said:
Very interesting answers... nothing like what I had thought. I would not think that fulfilled prophesies would be evidence for God. For those of you who think so, would one convince you or would you need several?
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Also any failed prophecy is huge evidence against, at least if the God in question is supposed to be omniscient.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
angellous_evangellous said:
Now that would be difficult.:D

I was puzzeled due to my knowledge of the present reality of religious prophesies - ya win some, and ya lose some - and that's how it is for everyone. :biglaugh:

Have no fear, no religion has done this, and you're quite safe in your atheism.
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Thank you. Exactly.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Autodidact said:
Also any failed prophecy is huge evidence against, at least if the God in question is supposed to be omniscient.
Click to expand...
Just to be Devil's Advocate for a moment... it could also be evidence that a once-perfect, God-authored text had been messed with by humans.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
PureX said:
There is no way a book can prove that it was written by God. In fact, if God Itself were standing right in front of me, claiming to be God, there would be no way for God to prove to me that It's God. No matter what God did, the possibility would always exist that I'm tricking myself into experiencing what I'm experiencing, or that I'm being tricked into it by something other than a God. It would require omniscience to prove the existence of God, beyond reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...
Well, if you need proof. Proof is rare. I'd settle for some evidence, myself.
 
Nanda

Nanda

Polyanna
~Amin~ said:
What would satisfy you then?
Click to expand...

I'd have to experience God myself, I suppose. But even then I'd be skeptical, since brain damage and artificially altered states can produce those same effects. At any rate, it would take something a lot less subtle than the things attributed to an omniscient, sentient being that get toted out now.
 
Darkness

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Lunamoth said:
21At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ[c]!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible. 23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. 24"But in those days, following that distress,
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[d] 26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
Click to expand...

You left out a very important part of that book:

Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus Christ should have returned sometime in the first or second century.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
eudaimonia said:
I don't think that the situation is quite as bad as this.

When I go to work, I generally don't worry about whether or not I'm being tricked by demons or space aliens into experiencing an illusion of myself going to work. I accept that I do "beyond reasonable doubt". Not beyond any doubt, but certainly beyond a reasonable one.

Likewise, a God might not be able to prove to me beyond any doubt that he is not simply an illusion created by space aliens, but the demonstration of power or knowledge could perhaps be great enough that it may be reasonable to think that this is actually a God.
Click to expand...
But that's just it. If "God" has to perform a "magic trick" to convince us that It's really God, well, the greater the Magic the greater the reasonable skepticism.

Your going to work offers no exceptional promises, and so requires no exceptional proof. But the claim of divinity offers the ultimate in exceptional promise, and so would require the ultimate in proof. If you told me you were going to work, I would take you at your word. But if you told me you were God, I would not believe you. The difference is that the latter is the ultimate in extraordinary claims, and so would require the ultimate in proof. But I couldn't even conceive of, let alone verify such a proof. How could you show me your omniscience, when I'm not omniscient, myself? How would I know if you were telling the truth about what you know when I don't know what's true, myself? See what I mean?
 
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