Atheists:what does a book gotta have to prove its God's

[~Amin~]

What about the fact that in the Qur'an
When the sun is wound round and
its light is lost and is overthrown.81,1.
Now i would advise you to look up the sun in any book
you choose and you will find that the sun has approxamitly
12 billion year life span in other words itl be overthrown
how could anyone have known that thousands of years ago?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about the fact that in the Qur'an
When the sun is wound round and
its light is lost and is overthrown.81,1.
Now i would advise you to look up the sun in any book
you choose and you will find that the sun has approxamitly
12 billion year life span in other words itl be overthrown
how could anyone have known that thousands of years ago?

They probably didn't.

The passage also seems to be consistent with its author thinking that the sun was a large ball of fire that would one day go out and fall to Earth.

 

[Autodidact]

What about the fact that in the Qur'an
When the sun is wound round and
its light is lost and is overthrown.81,1.
Now i would advise you to look up the sun in any book
you choose and you will find that the sun has approxamitly
12 billion year life span in other words itl be overthrown
how could anyone have known that thousands of years ago?

Except that the sun is not wound round, and its light will not be lost, it will explode, not be overthrown. Other than that, and its total vagueness as to time frames, it's marvelously accurate.

 

[~Amin~]

They probably didn't.

BUT IF YOU KNEW IT WAS WHAT WOOULD YOU SAY?

The passage also seems to be consistent with its author thinking that the sun was a large ball of fire that would one day go out and fall to Earth.

The verse doesnt say any of that you mentioned.
Read it again.

 

[~Amin~]

Except that the sun is not wound round, and its light will not be lost, it will explode,not be overthrown..

Can you define what wound round means?
What i read was that it said itle be extinguished you can double check.
I read a few different encyclopedia's.

Other than that, and its total vagueness as to time frames, it's marvelously accurate.

Its a 100% accurate

 

[s2a]

Pssst.

Amin.

Maybe you missed this in your distracted fervor...

...an actual ANSWER to your OP inquiry.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/987991-post15.html

Once more, you are invited to lend your considered reply.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

BUT IF YOU KNEW IT WAS WHAT WOOULD YOU SAY?

Irrelevant. There's nothing there that says they did.

The verse doesnt say any of that you mentioned.
Read it again.

It didn't say anything about 12 billion years either.

 

[Autodidact]

BUT IF YOU KNEW IT WAS WHAT WOOULD YOU SAY?

I'd say, "Wow, that's amazing. How did they do that?" And if I had Bill Gates money, I'd be rich.

The verse doesnt say any of that you mentioned.
Read it again.

Nor does it say what you mentioned. It's just more of the same vague poetry that, in retrospect, with your eyes squinched up and looking sideways, can be construed as not being inconsistent with the truth, which we actually learn from science, not from any holy text.

 

[Autodidact]

Can you define what wound round means?

Who knows? That's the point. I'd say it sounds like a spool of thread.

What i read was that it said itle be extinguished you can double check.
I read a few different encyclopedia's.

Yes, eventually it will explode and then expire.

Its a 100% accurate

If I told you it was from the Book of Mormon, might you see it differently?

btw, why is it that the Koran can only be understood in Arabic, until a Muslim wants to cite it to prove it's a scientific treatise?

 

[~Amin~]

Irrelevant. There's nothing there that says they did.

If you say so.

It didn't say anything about 12 billion years either.

The point is that it will be extinguished regardless
and again.
we did nat create the heavens and the earth and what
is between them except in truth and for a SPECIFIED term.
But those who disbelieve, from that which they are warned are
turning away. Qur'an46,3.
Wouldnt you agree the term specified shows every thing will
come to an end eg sun?

 

[Autodidact]

If you say so.


The point is that it will be extinguished regardless
and again.
we did nat create the heavens and the earth and what
is between them except in truth and for a SPECIFIED term.
But those who disbelieve, from that which they are warned are
turning away. Qur'an46,3.
Wouldnt you agree the term specified shows every thing will
come to an end eg sun?

I don't think the heavens and the earth and what is between them were in fact created for a specified term, and I don't think most modern cosmologists believe this either.

 

[~Amin~]

If I told you it was from the Book of Mormon, might you see it differently?

Im sure you'r aware muslims believe in the Bible but not every
word of it, and this is even the case with christians eg a jahovas witness will
not except ALL of the king james version, likewise if there were accurate
statement in the book of Morman, i would accept the accurate parts.

btw, why is it that the Koran can only be understood in Arabic, until a Muslim wants to cite it to prove it's a scientific treatise?

That's not entirly true i read the Qur'an in english, but its true that
not only in Arabic but any other language, not every word can
be defined exactly, in the translation.

 

[~Amin~]

I don't think the heavens and the earth and what is between them were in fact created for a specified term, and I don't think most modern cosmologists believe this either.

You agreed the sun will be extinguished, and this is a fact
now if there was no sun, would'nt everything else die therefore
defining the word specified?

 

[YmirGF]

To the Atheists:

A very basic question what does a book have to
contain to prove it was sent by God?

Oh this is too simple. The book would have to have something like an auto-translator built in, so that whoever read the book would read it in their OWN native tongue. There would be no need to have such a book translated by men/women/cats because "God" would take care of that from the get go.

What I mean is that an English speaking person would read the book and understand it IN English. A Chinese person would read the book IN Chinese. An Arabic person would see the exact same book written in Arabic. A blind person would "see" the book written in Braille. For a "god" who can do anything, this would be a lot more convincing than the likes of the Qur'an which is hearsay at best. I say hearsay because Muhammed (pbuh) got the message from Gabriel who got the message from God... so... the reader gets stuck with the third hand account trying to figure out what Muhammed was rattling on about. It is of little wonder why the book doesn't make much sense and is so open to interpretation.

 

[Wandered Off]

We would also expect a logical explanation for why an allegedly omnipotent God would send a book in the first place, playing a kind of cosmic "pass it on" game and leaving us stuck with interpreting second- or third-hand revelation. It's arguably one of the worst ways to communicate a coherent, universal, timeless message that transcends cultural and temporal boundaries.

What do you do when you don't understand something in the text? You have to rely on scholars who studied it most of their lives. How divine is a message that you are still trying to figure out and not everybody can agree on even after years of study? An omnipotent God presumably could communicate such that nobody ever misunderstood or misinterpreted, and we could reasonably expect that for the supposedly most important information we could possibly know. I don't see how a book could ever accomplish that, unless it took the form Paul mentioned above.

 

[~Amin~]

I say hearsay because Muhammed (pbuh) got the message from Gabriel who got the message from God... so... the reader gets stuck with the third hand account trying to figure out what Muhammed was rattling on about.

Nor does he speak from himself.
It is not but a revelation revealed.Qur"an 53,3,4.

Even as the father has said unto me, so i speak.
Holy Bible
John 12,49,50

The prophets of God spoke the message from God.

It is of little wonder why the book doesn't make much sense and is so open to interpretation.

NO DEAR YMIR,
The Guidance in the Qur'an is clear eg The Oneness of God,
the Day of Account, The Books , the Destiny, Messengeship,
But if you are sugesting that each person HAS to understand
every word in the Qur'an, or The Bible, or the Vedas or
whatever book,the same way then thats an impossibility.

 

[Autodidact]

You agreed the sun will be extinguished, and this is a fact
now if there was no sun, would'nt everything else die therefore
defining the word specified?

No. When the sun explodes, the rest of the heavens will proceed as before.

 

[~Amin~]

We would also expect a logical explanation for why an allegedly omnipotent God would send a book in the first place, playing a kind of cosmic "pass it on" game and leaving us stuck with interpreting.

Thats not true, that is false, that is wrong.
Who say's so?

second- or third-hand revelation. It's arguably one of the worst ways to communicate a coherent, universal, timeless message that transcends cultural and temporal boundaries.

According to WHO can you please share?

What do you do when you don't understand something in the text?

Like i mentioned the text is CLEAR even in the metaphore there
a clear message.

You have to rely on scholars who studied it most of their lives. How divine is a message that you are still trying to figure out and not everybody can agree on even after years of study?

Its clear your new to the muslim understanding therfore
you may be excused.

An omnipotent God presumably could communicate such that nobody ever misunderstood or misinterpreted, and we could reasonably expect that for the supposedly most important information we could possibly know. I don't see how a book could ever accomplish that, unless it took the form Paul mentioned above.

I wouldnt follow paul blindly he has some beatiful statements but also errors.

 

[~Amin~]

No. When the sun explodes, the rest of the heavens will proceed as before.

Are you saying when the sun is no more we can survive on earth?

 

[Melissa G]

I doubt very much that humans will be around when the sun becomes a Red Giant. I think that mankind will be extinct long before that event. In any event, when the Sun expands, there will be no earth to survive on...the earth will be incinerated, wiped out completely...gone in a massive nuclear fireball.

fin

melissa