McBell
Unbound
Wow.
The lengths you go to to deny the fact that there is disagreement.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Atheists:what does a book gotta have to prove its God's
- Thread starter ~Amin~
- Start date
The lengths you go to to deny the fact that there is disagreement.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Greetings Amin, it's that pesky rat again. I realize you were addressing Aasimar, but I couldn't resist taking a kick at the cat.
Regarding trees (and plants) producing oxygen
Regarding Aasimar's statement
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how exactly one's is being pessimistic or optimistic in relation to these concrete realities?
Aside from this saying that the cosmos is an example of "god's greatness" is a somewhat meaningless statement. You could say the same thing about garbage decomposing in a land fill for all the difference it makes. The amusing thing about pointing at the cosmos which is chalked full of endless starts and worlds is that the cosmos is primarily made up of nothing but empty space. Is that empty space also a good example of "showing God His Greatness" or is it more indicative of the void within the thought process of the person making the statement?
Whew... now my paint job should be dry so I can finish my project, lol.
Aasimar already answered this with "We are only on the top of the food chain", so why are you asking again? Amin, there is little doubt that the human animal is a very intelligent creature, but I would ask you to "get over" unhelpful concepts like, "the human animal is superior to other animals". Given our penchant for bloody warfare etc, in the long run, it would seem as if the human animal is not especially bright in the respect that it doesn't learn much from its previous endeavors. Aside from this, I fully understand that you believe we are like some kind of divinely appointed "vice-regents" who are responsible for taking care of the planet. Sadly, to date, Muslims, in particular, have not done anything noteworthy in this regard.
Regarding trees (and plants) producing oxygen
Is it helpful to ascribe the process to a creator god? Does it make the process any more profound than it already is?
Regarding Aasimar's statement
You wrote the exceptionally odd commentAasimar said:
I'm sorry Amin but that kind of comment referencing Aasimar's statement is utterly breathtaking. Aasimar’s observation is simple reality and his pessimism or optimism has no bearing on the issue. Think... the surface of the sun; the surface of Mars; the surface of Venus; being in space itself; being in the ocean far from land; being in a desert you are not adapted to be that desert be made of ice or sand.
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how exactly one's is being pessimistic or optimistic in relation to these concrete realities?
Actually Amin, you (and others) only think they are "great" answers. They are simple answers that are only as great as their believer thinks they are. When compared to reality, those answers are a cheap second or third hand rendition of how some poor souls figured things ought to be. It is a pity that others cannot let go of such dismal ramblings.
I have read many religious text, several times, from cover to cover. How about you? Have you ever read any "religious" text outside of Abrahamic thought?
Saying "God is great" is perhaps one of the most over-rated, useless exclamations the human animal can utter, imho. It tells us nothing whatsoever about god and since it is an adjective referring to god it is simply stating what should be rather obvious. It is like someone proudly going to the water's edge, dipping their hand in and then saying with perfect seriousness, "Water is wet!" Frankly, it is the same as saying, "God is BIG!” "Um yeah... and.........."
Aside from this saying that the cosmos is an example of "god's greatness" is a somewhat meaningless statement. You could say the same thing about garbage decomposing in a land fill for all the difference it makes. The amusing thing about pointing at the cosmos which is chalked full of endless starts and worlds is that the cosmos is primarily made up of nothing but empty space. Is that empty space also a good example of "showing God His Greatness" or is it more indicative of the void within the thought process of the person making the statement?
This is a basic religious person's dismissal when presented with a truth that runs counter to their religious thinking. It's almost like being told that Santa Claus is not real, evidence given, and yet the child refuses to acknowledge the simple truth. Life is so much more wonderful with the thought of Santa Clause being real, ain't it?
I think that religious people need to get a grip on reality. Perhaps a week at a Nudist Colony would help work through these farcical attitudes of misplaced sexuality and inhumane morality.
Now, try as I might, I simply do not see how this relates in the slightest to the comment you are referring to. Does one have to inhale a large amount of God, hold their breath and then the meaning suddenly becomes clear? Sorry I don't get it. Otoh, many would argue that it is religious folks that are accepting things with no basis in reality. Sides of the coin... sides of the coin... but you have to be sitting on the edge of the coin to see that perspective.
Whew... now my paint job should be dry so I can finish my project, lol.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
Why? because we can't run as hard as cheetahs, so we get jalous and make cars?
Why? because we are not as strong as an elephant, get jalous and invent trucks?
Why? because we can't swim like dolphins and make submarines?
can't fly, birds, planes.
Why? because the only thing we have is our so called intelligence and use that to surpress other animals out of jalousy? And use it for warfare to make sure?
No really, name one thing besides being smart? Because yes we are "smart". Whooptiedoo..
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
The question was for Nanda who said that she(?) would not believe in God because of what was read in a book.
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3
Aasimar
Atheist
No, we are not. We are superior in our domain. However E-coli kicks our ***, as well as hundreds of other diseases. We are the most intelligent yes, but that is but one aspect of life. Our reflexes are slow, our eyesight is mediocre, We breath out of the same hole we eat with, which guarantee's that thousands of us will choke to death every year (Whales don't have to worry about such things.) Go stand naked in the middle of the amazon jungle and tell me how superior you are to all other creatures. Seriously, we have modified our environment to suit us, and it's only taken tens of thousands of years.
Infallible answer is not available (Sorry, bloody theories
But probably due to the early atmosphere having an abundance of CO2 (algae is among the first life thought to have existed)Oh on the contrary, I'm a scuba diver :0 I go places where only my technology allows me to live, and it's incredible fun. I just don't pretend like the ocean is my friend as the nitrogen builds up in my bloodstream threatening to imbalance my brain chemistry and make me "drunk." It's not pessimistic to note that the rest of known space is unihabitable without extreme technology, %99.999999999999999999 of the known universe is uninhabitable. And my pessimism or optomism has nothing to do with how things are.
These things don't prove God doesn't exist, nor do good things prove he does exist. You can't prove or disprove that, just like any fantastical made up concept, you can't prove I'm not a goat-human hybrid in a lab typing this right now, doesn't mean you should assume that because you can't prove I'm not therefore I am.
Yes, Tao-teh-ching (Though not necessarily religions) and the KJV Bible. About 20% of the Qu'ran
No, this shows there's a lot of crap out there that we don't fully understand yet. This doesn't prove the existence of a deity anymore then it proves that Captain Picard is out there making peace with the Borg.
Perhaps, but God being a more pleasant explanation in no way influences whether or not it is actually true.
There are things your and I are not aware is a true statement.
That something created them is just baseless speculation.
I didn't say women were sex objects to be walking around naked, I didn't refer to them as objects at all. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of a divne all powerful being creating the universe and then decreeing what Vicky can wear out in public. Women are every bit as human as men, and religious beliefs have absolutely no right to impede them in what they wish to do. None. If they believe they should cover themselves in 45 layers of wool, that's fine they can do that. And if they don't, they don't. But the decision lies with them.
I don't see how.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Resistance is futile.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
The same thing that it would have to contain to prove to you that it was sent by aliens from Alpha Centauri: compelling evidence.
I think where we differ is on what standard we judge evidence "compelling". In my opinion, the standards of evidence that people use to "prove", say, a fulfilled prophesy from the Bible or Koran could equally well prove that the Vedas or the Iliad or the rantings of Nostradamus or thousands of other writings are divinely inspired, IF those standards are applied equally and fairly.
By the way, why would an all-powerful being need to "send" anything, anyway? Why not deliver it in person, to everyone--every day if necessary? My schoolteachers were not all-powerful beings, yet they were able to muster the time and energy to talk to me and all of my classmates simultaneously, every day, in a manner that was so convincing that not a single classmate doubted the existence of any of my teachers. Surely it would be effortless for an infinite being to do even better, no?
~Amin~
God is the King
Ymir because your an old man your responses are out dated,
your responses can be flipped back to your try it.
~Amin~
God is the King
Exactly we are superior then any other being when we recognise OUR Creator.Why? because we can't run as hard as cheetahs, so we get jalous and make cars?
Why? because we are not as strong as an elephant, get jalous and invent trucks?
Why? because we can't swim like dolphins and make submarines?
can't fly, birds, planes.
Why? because the only thing we have is our so called intelligence and use that to surpress other animals out of jalousy? And use it for warfare to make sure?
No really, name one thing besides being smart? Because yes we are "smart". Whooptiedoo..
McBell
Unbound
Now all you needs do is prove not only that there is in fact a creator, but WHICH of the thousands of proposed creators is the real one.
And no, merely pointing to a book and making claims about it does not count.
Why?
Because there are people who do just that with many different books.
And everyone of them has the exact same thing backing up their claim: their belief that their claim has any truth to it.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Even superior to the creator?
~Amin~
God is the King
lol sorry i dont know why that made me laugh.
Nothing is superior to the Creator He is the One
and Only, theres Nothing like unto Him.:shout
~Amin~
God is the King
God Almighty doesnt rely on anything, He reveals His signs
through revelation
through creation
through prophets
and through our PERSONAL selves inspirations and other means,
if this is not acceptable to you how would you like Him to have
done it?
~Amin~
God is the King
Most of what you've mentioned is our own fault, shouldn't blame God.
As God says And whatever strikes you of disaster-
it is for what YOUR hands have earned;Qur'an42,30.
The disease, environmental phenomena, can easily be attributed to human
evil, eg the nuclear tests by humans cause great diseases such as cancer
and others, and environmental phenomena, may be linked with global
warming, as for the cosmic radiation God protects us through the
ozone layer which is only a cause and behind the scene is the
Almighty, and there are MANY other examples i promise.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Ummm. OK. So, are all "old people" in the same boat as me or just those that happen to think Islam is "much ado about nothing".
Tell me, and try to be honest, you say that someone who believes in God is superior to all others. Does that include humans as well? Does this mean that you are personally superior to non-believers? If so, please try to expain -- IN YOUR OWN WORDS -- just how that is. Explain exactly how you are superior to those of us who do not accept your god -- and never will?
The reason I ask is that when one claims that by believing in "god" one becomes "superior" to all others, it also boldly states that some folks are inferior. I would suggest that looking at your fellow human animal as being inferior to yourself (and others who believe similarly) is a very dangerous mindset to hold.
~Amin~
God is the King
OOOOHHHH i think your letting yourself get carried away there Ymir
dont you think so.
For the time ive known you, i know,that you know this is not TRUE.
Aasimar
Atheist
Same old garbage.
Good = god did it
Bad = mankind's evil nature's fault
No proof, just extraordinary claims with no evidence at all. You really think God creates children with holes in their hearts and allergies to sunlight as punishment to mankind? He inflicts insane amounts of pain to completely innocent people as a sort of sick cosmic joke?
What this line of reasoning basically says is, because people do bad sometimes, I'm gonna kill and plague people at complete random, some gay guys in America going at it? Jewish kid in Israel gets leukemia, take that gay people! Oh and by the way, the region of the world where most of my followers are who are striving to do as I say will be rewarded by being one of the most war torn regions in the world. Why does this make any sense to you? God punishes godless American's with cheeseburgers and 80 year lifespans and the most fundamentalist Muslim countries in the world get violent dictatorships and insane poverty levels?
And for the record, I don't blame God for anything. Don't think there is one. I don't blame anyone for disease. It's just here, sucks, gotta deal with it. Not everything in the universe has us in mind, some things are just unfortunate. Life sucks, get a helmet and all that.
McBell
Unbound
Interestingly enough, I was not asking your God to prove anything.
I know not to hold my breath waiting for your God to do anything.
I asked for you to prove anything about what you are claiming.
You have not.
As for it 'not being acceptable to me,' I find that for such an allegedly superior being to be content hiding amongst thousands of possible and equally credible deities, to be nothing more than a trickster.
Interesting picture you have painted of your God.
I cannot help but wonder if it is any at all accurate.