Atheists: What if?

[Thief]

Demonstratablity and repeatability.

Might be a bit difficult to get another Big Bang in a petri dish.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Has the reverse question been asked to the theists?

Theists: If no evidence of your deity exists, save for subjective experiences and a few accurately named ancient cities in your book of choice, would you openly admit it?

 

[Thief]

Has the reverse question been asked to the theists?

Theists: If no evidence of your deity exists, save for subjective experiences and a few accurately named ancient cities in your book of choice, would you openly admit it?

I don't believe in God because of a book.

Look up.

 

[savagewind]

I don't believe in God because of a book.

Look up.

Look up, look down, look all around.

 

[savagewind]

Has the reverse question been asked to the theists?

Theists: If no evidence of your deity exists, save for subjective experiences and a few accurately named ancient cities in your book of choice, would you openly admit it?

I lost my post! Is it because of this guy? :sad4:

You didn't read the thread! I think I said sometimes I do not believe it. When I do believe it is fresh air everywhere. That is evidence which is good enough for me.

I don't believe God because of God's existance. I believe God because of God's words. And I sought belief because of the Earth's majesty. The Earth's majesty and relative harmony is the evidence I have to present.

The fresh air I can't share. I've tried.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I don't believe in God because of a book.

Look up.

There's a high pressure system coming through today, so I see some low-level cloud cover. Above that I'm sure there's some open sky and beautiful sunlight, but I don't see that at the moment, because of the cloud cover and all.

Should I look higher?

Above the regional space above my head, we'll eventually get the lower and upper atmosphere. If I go higher than that, we start to get into some murky territory of asking which way is up, since there is no longer an up, down, left, or right. (I mean, I guess technically those directions still exist in relation to our orientation, but there isn't actually an "up" or a "down" given the nature of space.)

But hypothetically speaking, let's just assume that "up" is the same direction that I was previously traveling. I'll continue on in this "up" pattern until I reach another planetary body (really hoping it's not a gaseous blob...) Once I hit the crust of that thing, should I look up again and go in the direction from whence I came? Or I should I start digging down it order to keep moving in the same direction I was already going?

Man, this is starting to get confusing.

Where's god again?

 

[jonathan180iq]

I lost my post! Is it because of this guy? :sad4:

You didn't read the thread! I think I said sometimes I do not believe it. When I do believe it is fresh air everywhere. That is evidence which is good enough for me.

I don't believe God because of God's existance. I believe God because of God's words. And I sought belief because of the Earth's majesty. The Earth's majesty and relative harmony is the evidence I have to present.

The fresh air I can't share. I've tried.

Yeah....

"Save for subjective experiences..."

 

[savagewind]

Yeah....

"Save for subjective experiences..."

Not all subjective. Words are evidence in my world. It's your problem if words are not evidence in your world.

 

[Thief]

There's a high pressure system coming through today, so I see some low-level cloud cover. Above that I'm sure there's some open sky and beautiful sunlight, but I don't see that at the moment, because of the cloud cover and all.

Should I look higher?

Above the regional space above my head, we'll eventually get the lower and upper atmosphere. If I go higher than that, we start to get into some murky territory of asking which way is up, since there is no longer an up, down, left, or right. (I mean, I guess technically those directions still exist in relation to our orientation, but there isn't actually an "up" or a "down" given the nature of space.)

But hypothetically speaking, let's just assume that "up" is the same direction that I was previously traveling. I'll continue on in this "up" pattern until I reach another planetary body (really hoping it's not a gaseous blob...) Once I hit the crust of that thing, should I look up again and go in the direction from whence I came? Or I should I start digging down it order to keep moving in the same direction I was already going?

Man, this is starting to get confusing.

Where's god again?

Yep...you're confused.

Having looked up...now look within.

If you don't see a connection.....ooops.
Too bad.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Not all subjective. Words are evidence in my world. It's your problem if words are not evidence in your world.

Are you going with the traditional route of using words from the Bible or are you one of the people who claim that Jesus was the word so his actions are inerrant, instead of trusting the actual written document? Just so I know which direction we'll be heading in.

 

[Thief]

Are you going with the traditional route of using words from the Bible or are you one of the people who claim that Jesus was the word so his actions are inerrant, instead of trusting the actual written document? Just so I know which direction we'll be heading in.

Let me butt in for this one.
The Carpenter did two things outstanding.
He did miracles.
He told parables.

Choose.....which would be your cause to nod your head?

Or have you already decided on your direction.....which might not lead anywhere.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Yep...you're confused.

Having looked up...now look within.

If you don't see a connection.....ooops.
Too bad.

Look man, I know you don't know who you're talking to when you're on the internet. I get that. But the guidance of "look up" - which in the spiritual world is supposed to be an idiom for garnering some kind of sense of wonder and enlightened amazement - isn't really guidance at all.

And then you suggest to "look within" - which any self-realizing person should do multiple times, continuously over the course of their life - still isn't guidance.

I've looked up. I've looked in. I've look all around. I've been enlightened.

You're essentially using the "Creation is evidence of God" argument, right?

"How can you look at something beautiful and not see the presence of a loving creator?"

I have kids. I've experienced amazing things. I also know this ploy, which is a convenient way to dismiss errors in a holy book as a means of dealing with that logical dilemma. If you take the focus off of what a fallacious document might say and focus solely on the subjective, then you've avoided one of the many pitfall of things like creationism and fundamentalism. I can respect that. At least you're trying. I want you to know it's not your personal belief system that I am attacking. If it fills you with joy, and pride, and love - the so be it. Enjoy a full life and do your thing.

What I'm addressing is the claim that anyone can just "look up" and see and feel and believe what you do. That's the rub. What if a Greek walked up and said "Look up" as evidence of Zeus? It would be just as effective.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Let me butt in for this one.
The Carpenter did two things outstanding.
He did miracles.
He told parables.

Choose.....which would be your cause to nod your head?

Or have you already decided on your direction.....which might not lead anywhere.

There are two separate conversations here. Let's not make it three. I'll address your response when the one who made the initial statement addresses my question. Is that cool?

 

[Iti oj]

Let me butt in for this one.
The Carpenter did two things outstanding.
He did miracles.
He told parables.

Choose.....which would be your cause to nod your head?

Or have you already decided on your direction.....which might not lead anywhere.

We are did he did. We don't know. There's no evidence or reason to accept the claims and reasons to reject the claim.

 

[savagewind]

Are you going with the traditional route of using words from the Bible or are you one of the people who claim that Jesus was the word so his actions are inerrant, instead of trusting the actual written document? Just so I know which direction we'll be heading in.

I don't trust the written document. Jesus' words and his natural description are a part of it. So in a way I can't trust 'Jesus' either. I trust true words. I don't know how I have comprehended true words from false words but I know the true words actually own power. False words make me feel sick and lost.

 

[Thief]

We are did he did. We don't know. There's no evidence or reason to accept the claims and reasons to reject the claim.

The miracles?....or the parables?

 

[jonathan180iq]

I don't trust the written document. Jesus' words and his natural description are a part of it. So in a way I can't trust 'Jesus' either. I trust true words. I don't know how I have comprehended true words from false words but I know the true words actually own power. False words make me feel sick and lost.

Well, which words are we talking about then? Just true words in general, like universal truths, or what? Give me some reference point.

 

[Iti oj]

The miracles?....or the parables?

Either. Especially the miracles

 

[Thief]

Look man, I know you don't know who you're talking to when you're on the internet. I get that. But the guidance of "look up" - which in the spiritual world is supposed to be an idiom for garnering some kind of sense of wonder and enlightened amazement - isn't really guidance at all.

And then you suggest to "look within" - which any self-realizing person should do multiple times, continuously over the course of their life - still isn't guidance.

I've looked up. I've looked in. I've look all around. I've been enlightened.

You're essentially using the "Creation is evidence of God" argument, right?

"How can you look at something beautiful and not see the presence of a loving creator?"

I have kids. I've experienced amazing things. I also know this ploy, which is a convenient way to dismiss errors in a holy book as a means of dealing with that logical dilemma. If you take the focus off of what a fallacious document might say and focus solely on the subjective, then you've avoided one of the many pitfall of things like creationism and fundamentalism. I can respect that. At least you're trying. I want you to know it's not your personal belief system that I am attacking. If it fills you with joy, and pride, and love - the so be it. Enjoy a full life and do your thing.

What I'm addressing is the claim that anyone can just "look up" and see and feel and believe what you do. That's the rub. What if a Greek walked up and said "Look up" as evidence of Zeus? It would be just as effective.

Cause and effect is all that I lean to.

If you want to call your God Zeus......I don't mind.

I call my God .....Almighty.....Creator of heaven and earth.

 

[Iti oj]

Thief you keep acting like your posts constitute evidence, when they don't even form sentences let alone arguments
You're posts do more harm then good