Atheists: What if?

[savagewind]

It is shocking to believe anyone thinks everyone is dreaming of a world with only their kind in it. I think most people love diversity and are happy just to be able to live their own way without interference and would grant (if able) everyone else to live their own way.

I am thinking of Mr. Rogers (Fred Rogers) who said "There's no person in the whole world like you. And I like you just the way you are."

The people who interrupt other people's lives with violence and death are not people with hopes and dreams like human. I am not cabable of kicking a dog for goodness sake. I mourn the dead animals on the street. I worry I should take one to the vet because I think it might be alive and suffering alone . I hit a pet duck with my car and I felt the need for repentance and I compensated the owner. And to torture and kill a whole nation of people is the same?

Can you go into more deeply to make some sense of it? I will surely listen.

 

[Thief]

Quite the opposite; they are very common in all societies. Hitler was hardly very unique.

It is the social environment that fails to perceive and reject such psychopathic goals that is comparatively rare.

So EVERYONE can be lumped in the same stew?

Sounds like hell to me.

You go find out for sure.....
Let me know how it feels.

Me?.....I have better things in mind.

oh...that's right.....you don't believe!
nevermind.

 

[LuisDantas]

So EVERYONE can be lumped in the same stew?

Everyone is in the same stew. I'm a bit surprised that you even ask.

Sounds like hell to me.

Often enough it is.

You go find out for sure.....
Let me know how it feels.

Me?.....I have better things in mind.

oh...that's right.....you don't believe!
nevermind.

Thanks, I will not.

 

[Thief]

:no:

Everyone is in the same stew. I'm a bit surprised that you even ask.




Often enough it is.




Thanks, I will not.

Not buying the common stew scenario.....just had to ask.

 

[savagewind]

Picture this....Mr Rogers with a long barrel rifle.....overlooking some territory.

'What a wonderful day in the neighborhood!........BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I heard somewhere he was a sniper in the service.
(not sure it if be so.....just a rumor)

I think it is unfair to picture who a person is on the inside by what he or she has done for the war. Making war is not human imo but participating in it is most human.

And how can it not be known for sure if someone was in the military and what he did there? I think in the US to know about the army is public priviledge. Unless he was working for the secret service it would be easy to find out if he was a sniper. I wonder if he would find it funny like I do?

 

[LuisDantas]

It is shocking to believe anyone thinks everyone is dreaming of a world with only their kind in it.

Not to me, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the core human drives - things like seeking physical security, societal acknowledgement and prestige.

I think most people love diversity

I wonder. Most people love their own personal freedom and hate having to be restrained by others' expectations, that much is certainly true.

It would probably be a good thing if most people were confortable with diversity, but I just don't think that is the case.

and are happy just to be able to live their own way without interference and would grant (if able) everyone else to live their own way.

See, that is a core point to clarify: that is just not possible.

The way we live is not of our own choice. It is of everyone else's.

If the people around us are satisfied enough with their own lives, they will have little reason or craving to control us or trouble us. But that, by its turn, is at least in part a function of how well we respect them.

Whatever we do with out lives will have consequences that affect our own lives, but also those of people around us. They will repress, accept or encourage our actions as they see fit - or, in miserable enough circunstances, lash out at us to attempt to drown their own frustrations.

 

[savagewind]

Let us say the truth IS that the essence inside every animal is the same. We are all capable, at any tiime in our lives, to torture another human being or animal.

Let's say it is a truth every thinking person is very aware of.

Then say someone does stand up to act on his inside essence of evil. The rest of us with the same essence must decide if we might sacrifice our own essence to stop the evil because it is the only righteous way.

Is there another way?

 

[savagewind]

Not to me, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the core human drives - things like seeking physical security, societal acknowledgement and prestige.

OK.

It would probably be a good thing if most people were comfortable with diversity, but I just don't think that is the case.

Entertainment is about diversity. Most people would choose to be entertained. Is it not so?

I wonder. Most people love their own personal freedom and hate having to be restrained by others' expectations, that much is certainly true.

I think I don't agree with this. It looks to me you are reflecting your own value onto humanity.

The way we live is not of our own choice. It is of everyone else's.

This is profound.

If the people around us are satisfied enough with their own lives, they will have little reason or craving to control us or trouble us. But that, by its turn, is at least in part a function of how well we respect them.

Whatever we do with out lives will have consequences that affect our own lives, but also those of people around us. They will repress, accept or encourage our actions as they see fit - or, in miserable enough circunstances, lash out at us to attempt to drown their own frustrations

I think what you say is true. Now extent that truth to the future. What do you think?

 

[Thief]

I think it is unfair to picture who a person is on the inside by what he or she has done for the war. Making war is not human imo but participating in it is most human.

And how can it not be known for sure if someone was in the military and what he did there? I think in the US to know about the army is public priviledge. Unless he was working for the secret service it would be easy to find out if he was a sniper. I wonder if he would find it funny like I do?

If your hand does anything at all.....
it's because you thought you should....or you felt like it.

We stand from the flesh naked.
Heaven will be able to see how you think and feel.

The peace of heaven is guarded

Share your heaven and your dreams with Hitler?....or the devil?
Would you know the difference?
and would it matter?

 

[Thief]

I wonder. Most people love their own personal freedom and hate having to be restrained by others' expectations, that much is certainly true.




The way we live is not of our own choice. It is of everyone else's.



Whatever we do with out lives will have consequences that affect our own lives, but also those of people around us. They will repress, accept or encourage our actions as they see fit - or, in miserable enough circunstances, lash out at us to attempt to drown their own frustrations.

Only the last paragraph is true.

The others are contrary to one another.

 

[savagewind]

If your hand does anything at all.....
it's because you thought you should....or you felt like it.

We stand from the flesh naked.
Heaven will be able to see how you think and feel.

The peace of heaven is guarded

Share your heaven and your dreams with Hitler?....or the devil?
Would you know the difference?
and would it matter?

But see to share with it might prevent it. It is what Rogers taught I think.
Also you can hardly blame a person for the use of a weapon that comes with enlisting. The blame is in enlisitng. Then everyone who wishes to remain blameless will not join. Then what have you? An army only of 'bad' people.:drool:

(and what about draftees?)

 

[Thief]

But see to share with it might prevent it. It is what Rogers taught I think.
Also you can hardly blame a person for the use of a weapon that comes with enlisting. The blame is in enlisitng. Then everyone who wishes to remain blameless will not join. Then what have you? An army only of 'bad' people.:drool:

(and what about draftees?)

People join ranks for a variety of reasons.
I think heaven will consider each one.

We are not all of the same stew.

 

[savagewind]

People join ranks for a variety of reasons.
I think heaven will consider each one.

We are not all of the same stew.

I agree. It is a truth learned from the Hebrews. They wrote "and his mother was...." We are not stew at all. People are offspring. Society certainly has some power to force certain offspring but society does not have dictator power over others like he seems to be saying.

 

[savagewind]

There is a problem with believing we are all the same.
A person becomes a super evil villian. Someone says to his self "I am the same" and "to be true to my same nature I should let it be". Now world has two villians...and on and on....

But if our inner essence is goodness like Jesus taught then when we see goodness we say "I should reflect my inner essence like he does".

But I think being born does not guarantee a good inner essence. Though God has the power to transform the inner person I think. Why doesn't God transform a person like Hitler? Transformation against a person's wish is murder.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a problem with believing we are all the same.
A person becomes a super evil villian. Someone says to his self "I am the same" and "to be true to my same nature I should let it be". Now world has two villians...and on and on....

That scenario is one of attempting to fit to a preconception. It does not look very realistic to me. Also, it seems to take as a premise that we have some sort of powerful free-acting essence.

In practice, people have very limited ethical spaces, and suffer a lot of pressure to keep acting inside them.

But if our inner essence is goodness like Jesus taught then when we see goodness we say "I should reflect my inner essence like he does".

But I think being born does not guarantee a good inner essence. Though God has the power to transform the inner person I think. Why doesn't God transform a person like Hitler? Transformation against a person's wish is murder.

That looks like a good argument against the existence of such a God. It is, in fact, the Argument From Evil, if I am not mistaken.

 

[LuisDantas]

Let us say the truth IS that the essence inside every animal is the same. We are all capable, at any tiime in our lives, to torture another human being or animal.

Let's say it is a truth every thinking person is very aware of.

Then say someone does stand up to act on his inside essence of evil. The rest of us with the same essence must decide if we might sacrifice our own essence to stop the evil because it is the only righteous way.

Is there another way?

Maybe you could be a bit more specific or concrete in your example? I'm not sure what you mean by "essence of evil". The essence of evil is not personal. Evil is the result of moral ignorance, or perhaps of despair.

 

[LuisDantas]

I wonder. Most people love their own personal freedom and hate having to be restrained by others' expectations, that much is certainly true.

I think I don't agree with this. It looks to me you are reflecting your own value onto humanity.

I must say that I am surprised. Of the whole of my post, this seemed like the less difficult part to accept.

I don't even know what you think to be the case instead.

 

[LuisDantas]

Only the last paragraph is true.

The others are contrary to one another.

Read them again.

 

[savagewind]

Maybe you could be a bit more specific or concrete in your example? I'm not sure what you mean by "essence of evil". The essence of evil is not personal. Evil is the result of moral ignorance, or perhaps of despair.

You said everyone has the same essence. Did I hear you right?

 

[savagewind]

I must say that I am surprised. Of the whole of my post, this seemed like the less difficult part to accept.

I don't even know what you think to be the case instead.

You sure prove to me you are a man. Women crave servitude. It says so in the Bible but the Bible is not why I believe it. I have observed it and there are times I bless God for holding me back from some things.