Atheists: What if?

[Thief]

Christianity, according to the Gospel of Luke as I understand it, is supposed to rise above petty vindictiveness.

Hummmmmm......petty vindictiveness.....

As if Hitler sits in high regard among the angelic?
A crown in his head ...You might say?

 

[LuisDantas]

Gosh, Thief. Are you trying to usurp my right to have no clue about Christianity?

 

[savagewind]

If regard does not include respect, is it worth anything?

Regard includes some respect. It isn't respect. Some respect means I will offer what I can to the appropriate point. I won't loose my cool to tell Hitler what I think of him to his face (which wouldn't do any good), I would not bow to his orders. I would give up MY due to keep MY honorable regard. At least I hope so, that fear wouldn't get in the way.

I hope I don't know what you mean that everyone is due my high regard. What is the definition of "regard" please?

At birth, yes everyone is regarded equally for good in a perfect world. But once a person chooses a bad way that shows no regard for his fellow, should your high regard of him continue? Why and for what?

 

[LuisDantas]

Yep, this confirms it. You are very much a dualist. And whatever I may be, I am considerably less of a dualist.

Regard includes some respect. It isn't respect.

Without respect we can't have regard, though.

Some respect means I will offer what I can to the appropriate point. I won't loose my cool to tell Hitler what I think of him to his face (which wouldn't do any good),

Why do you think it wouldn't? I happen to think it would do lots of good once the barriers of lack of listening and of emotional inability to accept are overcome.

I would not bow to his orders. I would give up MY due to keep MY honorable regard. At least I hope so, that fear wouldn't get in the way.

I hope I don't know what you mean that everyone is due my high regard. What is the definition of "regard" please?

Regard is optional and basically a preference. Respect is not.

At birth, yes everyone is regarded equally for good in a perfect world. But once a person chooses a bad way that shows no regard for his fellow, should your high regard of him continue? Why and for what?

Bad choices are in essence a disease that other people have a duty to try and heal.

 

[savagewind]

Yep, this confirms it. You are very much a dualist. And whatever I may be, I am considerably less of a dualist.

Yes I am a dualist. I didn't know what I am had a name till now. Thank you

Without respect we can't have regard, though.

I think that to respect one's self is needed. I can regard another person sans respect but I can't have high regard for the person without respect for him. Am I right to understand your high regard means a gift not just an attitude?

Why do you think it wouldn't? I happen to think it would do lots of good once the barriers of lack of listening and of emotional inability to accept are overcome.

If it would do good I must believe nobody tried.

Regard is optional and basically a preference. Respect is not.

Do you mean respect shouldn't be an option? I agree. I don't understand the first sentence.

Bad choices are in essence a disease that other people have a duty to try and heal

I deduce from this, if this is true, other people's sin is my sin. The Bible says it isn't.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes I am a dualist. I didn't know what I am had a name till now. Thank you

You're welcome. It is almost never a bad thing to be aware of the nature of one's own beliefs. Glad I helped.

I think that to respect one's self is needed. I can regard another person sans respect but I can't have high regard for the person without respect for him. Am I right to understand your high regard means a gift not just an attitude?

I agree.

If it would do good I must believe nobody tried.

Oh, I am sure that many people did attempt to tell Hitler what they thought of him to his face. But I figure that:

1. After the de facto Cult of Hitler was established (somewhen in the 1920s or 1930s) it was basically suicidal to attempt such a feat. There is a reason why so many valorous men attempted to suicide kill him.

2. One of the clearest personality traits of the moron is his extremely rancorous and vindictive nature.

3. That he did not pay a lot of attention to criticism is even clearer.

4. Have you watched even an scene of his discourses? Once the moron began to talk, his conviction was imperturbable. I doubt many people had the nerve to attempt to set him right more than once in a lifetime.

5. There are more than a few hints that the guy was saddled with messianic delusions. He may well have been literally incapable of listening to criticism, particularly in the 1940s when it was way too late to learn better.

Do you mean respect shouldn't be an option? I agree. I don't understand the first sentence.

Regard is very much an option, while yes, respect is something of a duty.

I deduce from this, if this is true, other people's sin is my sin. The Bible says it isn't.

I don't acknowledge the concept of sin as useful. Among other reasons, because it encourages attributing exclusive personal responsibility to mistakes.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What if you witnessed undeniable proof God exists. Would you hide it?

I would become a theist and accept whichever God provides proof. Hiding is for theists, they hide the lack of evidence for any God..

 

[crocusj]

I would become a theist and accept whichever God provides proof. Hiding is for theists, they hide the lack of evidence for any God..

I'm not so sure...faith is not hiding, it just looks like it. Faith (or belief) in all sorts of stuff is not exclusive to theists and if they are hiding the evidence of a god - or anything else - it is only from themselves (a lack of evidence must be obvious, surely).

Accepting the god is one thing but spreading the proof is another altogether. I would go down the cash route. Shallow, but I have would have a big yacht and the world is saved....who loses? Alternatively, say nothing......what a secret!!!

 

[Thief]

Gosh, Thief. Are you trying to usurp my right to have no clue about Christianity?

Having a right to have no clue....may ensure you don't.

 

[savagewind]

You're welcome. It is almost never a bad thing to be aware of the nature of one's own beliefs. Glad I helped.

This is wrong but not bad. Thank you again for your help but I was aware of the nature of my belief. I was not aware it had a name.

Oh, I am sure that many people did attempt to tell Hitler what they thought of him to his face. But I figure that:

1. After the de facto Cult of Hitler was established (somewhen in the 1920s or 1930s) it was basically suicidal to attempt such a feat. There is a reason why so many valorous men attempted to suicide kill him.

2. One of the clearest personality traits of the moron is his extremely rancorous and vindictive nature.

3. That he did not pay a lot of attention to criticism is even clearer.

4. Have you watched even an scene of his discourses? Once the moron began to talk, his conviction was imperturbable. I doubt many people had the nerve to attempt to set him right more than once in a lifetime.

5. There are more than a few hints that the guy was saddled with messianic delusions. He may well have been literally incapable of listening to criticism, particularly in the 1940s when it was way too late to learn better.

This all seems contrary to your opinion that everyone should be held in "high regard".

I don't acknowledge the concept of sin as useful.

Sin and the concept of sin is not the same imo. My opinion is that sins means not right. To kill someone not deserving of death is not right.

encourages attributing exclusive personal responsibility to mistakes.

It really seems to me that by your words you attribute another person's mistakes to people's inability to hold everyone in high regard which, in a way, I believe.

 

[LuisDantas]

Having a right to have no clue....may ensure you don't.

That boat has sailed, however. I know Christianity far more than I would if I had any choice.

 

[LuisDantas]

This all seems contrary to your opinion that everyone should be held in "high regard".

I support Euthanasy. However much regard I can manage for Hitler (hey, it is a tough call), he specifically was just too far gone.

I wish people did not project so much into his person, though. The guy was not a demon. He was enabled by a society that chose embrace its moral weakness and on occasion pride itself of it.

The scary thing is that the very same thing can be said, with just as much justification, of my own society. Or, from what I can figure, of the current day USA and Middle Eastern countries. We are certainly not holding a higher regard for human life than we used to in the 1940s.

Sin and the concept of sin is not the same imo. My opinion is that sins means not right. To kill someone not deserving of death is not right.

Does anyone truly deserve either death or life? I don't really think so.

It really seems to me that by your words you attribute another person's mistakes to people's inability to hold everyone in high regard which, in a way, I believe.

Not quite that. I just think we are much too used to mythification of people's responsibility and personal authonomy. We are all far more interconnected and interinfluenced than our cultural expectations and values would lead one to believe.

 

[Thief]

That boat has sailed, however. I know Christianity far more than I would if I had any choice.

So the boat sailed without you?......which explains your posting technique

and is that a mild support in favor of Hitler I see?

Holding regard and mercy for such a spirit!
Now THAT is generosity!
(misplaced and dysfunctional...but generous)

 

[LuisDantas]

So the boat sailed without you?......which explains your posting technique

and is that a mild support in favor of Hitler I see?

Holding regard and mercy for such a spirit!
Now THAT is generosity!
(misplaced and dysfunctional...but generous)

I would clarify. But it is a loss of time, so why bother?

Maybe if savagewind asks.

 

[Parsimony]

and is that a mild support in favor of Hitler I see?

Holding regard and mercy for such a spirit!
Now THAT is generosity!
(misplaced and dysfunctional...but generous)

I didn't get that vibe from his post. My guess is that he is saying that Hitler was by no means unique in his depravity. It's just that he was in a position where he could act out that immorality in a way that the vast majority of other bad people never get the opportunity to.

 

[LuisDantas]

Bingo. Those who want to understand, do.

 

[savagewind]

This is how it went down.

Originally Posted by LuisDantas View Post
Oh, I see. You hold a very different understanding of the sacred than mine, then.

Everyone is sacred, because everyone has such similar potentials, joys and sorrows. I suppose I would need to believe in some sort of devil or fallen angel to believe there are such things as non-sacred people.

Like Hitler?

Hitler was a fool, a very dangerous one and misguided one, no doubt.

But all the same, his pain and sorrow, his hopes and dreams were simply not particularly different from anyone else's. So yes, like Hitler as well.

The words at their face value say we are all capable of acts like evil people do because you say all people are sacred and with similar potentials, joys and sorrows so everyone's hopes and dreams are not much different.

That underlined part! That is what is so shocking. The rest is philosophically true, I think I agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

The words at their face value say we are all capable of acts like evil people do

Yes, we all are.

because you say all people are sacred and with similar potentials, joys and sorrows so everyone's hopes and dreams are not much different.

Indeed, that is what I say.

That underlined part! That is what is so shocking. The rest is philosophically true, I think I agree.

So I take it that you disagree?

Allow me to suggest that you might find the opportunity to participate in a Langar practice (a Sikh meal where everyone has much the same status and comparable privileges and duties) enlightening if you ever take it.

What do you find shocking? Can you perhaps put it in some other wording so that I can better understand your view?

 

[Thief]

I didn't get that vibe from his post. My guess is that he is saying that Hitler was by no means unique in his depravity. It's just that he was in a position where he could act out that immorality in a way that the vast majority of other bad people never get the opportunity to.

So you prefer to say such people are few and far between?

THANK GOD!

But then to say there is no consequence unto such spirit?.....

Imagine yourself as one of the many he harmed.
Then consider....do unto others as you would have them do unto you....
as consequence.....
times the number of people harmed!

 

[LuisDantas]

So you prefer to say such people are few and far between?

Quite the opposite; they are very common in all societies. Hitler was hardly very unique.

It is the social environment that fails to perceive and reject such psychopathic goals that is comparatively rare.