Atheists: What moral grounds do you base your views on?

[The Neo Nerd]

The very frst tenet is t love God. This means that according to your logic, if morality was something outward like this laws and christians think that God (the mightiest of the pack) created morals, then you would literaly be going against the first and more important law given by the mightiest of all pack leades, and as such being the most immoral you can be in a way.

.

There is, of course, some thoughts that are considered immoral. These are decided by the pack. However you can comfortably live in said pack, whilst still having those thoughts, if you don't tell anyone about them. That's the difference between "love thy god" and "thou shalt not kill". Killing can be proven thoughts can not.

If you were an honest person and answered no when asked do you love god, in the christian pack you would at the very least be shunned. Which of course is fair since you are not abiding by the rules of the pack.

But there would be another pack that would not care and therefore you would be able to live in that pack (as long as you followed there rules).



On a side note i'm wondering if the isrealites where unaware that it was bad to kill before moses climbed mount sinai. I'd be interested to hear what the theists think about this.

-Q

 

[Me Myself]

.There is, of course, some thoughts that are considered immoral. These are decided by the pack. However you can comfortably live in said pack, whilst still having those thoughts, if you don't tell anyone about them. That's the difference between "love thy god" and "thou shalt not kill". Killing can be proven thoughts can not.

If you were an honest person and answered no when asked do you love god, in the christian pack you would at the very least be shunned. Which of course is fair since you are not abiding by the rules of the pack.-Q

Can honesty as a moral law can only come from "pack"tual consensus? because if this was the case, then we would always be dishonest if we feel we will get something out of it and thepack would never know.

On a side note i'm wondering if the isrealites where unaware that it was bad to kill before moses climbed mount sinai. I'd be interested to hear what the theists think about this.

Ha! as a theist I am amused by the question, but lack the historical education to answer it. Most civilizations assumed it was bad because most went to at least some degree of "do unto others what you would like done unto you" even if only as a gut feeling unspoken moral compass.

But yeah sounds like a nice example to spout at theists who think you cannot be moral without some morality allegedly given by God

 

[InformedIgnorance]

People who are good only in fear of punish and hope for reward are the scariest people of all.

^
Frubals

 

[Bismillah]

I like how you twisted my statement to mean the worst of what it possibly could.

When I ask for clarification it's usually because I don't understand the argument.

In reality I mean that resources are circular, they can be passed around. They can be given in exchange for other resources. That is how it works.

At what level? Are trade agreements always fair?

 

[Photonic]

When I ask for clarification it's usually because I don't understand the argument.

At what level? Are trade agreements always fair?

Are they always unfair?

 

[Bismillah]

Are they always unfair?

When one holds a superior resource I believe so yes, that they are mostly characterized as unfair and that this has contributed to the majority resource wars.

 

[Photonic]

When one holds a superior resource I believe so yes, that they are mostly characterized as unfair and that this has contributed to the majority resource wars.

Do you think that would cause a reciprocation of the best response from the party treated unfairly?

Clearly not, so the point stands perfectly.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Can honesty as a moral law can only come from "pack"tual consensus? because if this was the case, then we would always be dishonest if we feel we will get something out of it and thepack would never know.

This is a great question.

I guess my best answer would be that liars will sometimes get caught. This is an observable affect which could then be punished by the pack. The threat of being caught and the accompanied punishment is an effective deterrent to lying.

Ha! as a theist I am amused by the question, but lack the historical education to answer it. Most civilizations assumed it was bad because most went to at least some degree of "do unto others what you would like done unto you" even if only as a gut feeling unspoken moral compass.

I prefer the line from the wiccan rede:

"An it harm none, do as you will"

I believe the wiccan variant as it does not allow the aggressor to impose their morals on their victim.

Think of it this way. If one pack believes that torture is acceptable, they will "do unto other packs as they would accept them to do unto them". The wiccan variant would definitely disallow it.

Ok so that was totally off topic, but i can't help myself sometimes.

-Q

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I know, secular Europe is such a horrible place, with such a high crime rate 1/10 a high as America's. The Middle East is where you want to be, right?

No different. If there's no justice, every land will receive the same result. I don't talk about land neither the people. I talk about belief that affect both of the previous aspect.

Crime has not always seen physically but can be in secrecy.

 

[Willamena]

These are the actual grounds that are the foundation of all my sane actions, usually in the morning.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

If this life is all we have, we are more likely to try to do something about evils than if we are taught to value submission in hopes of an afterlife. You have hold of the wrong end of the stick.

In any case, the evils you list tell us nothing about whether there is/are god(s).

Being injustice nowadays too give you something. It shouldn't always be seen. People that being under this injustice will live in vain.

Have you ever heard of being good has not always receive a good return? How you suppose to describe live of the people that leave in this condition. Being good and kind to others but receive opposites thing in return. Being good and hardworking but finally die in vain under injustice.

Is their life is meaningless and not the same as yours? Do you only care about your life and just to ignore the people that live under that kind of circumstance? Do their life is better Death than alive? You decide it.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I never said the world was fair. It should be but ultimately isn't

I'm not living in an unfair world.

If your life is fairly good, why others don't? This is the chaos that i'm talking about.

Sometimes, those people that having a hard life is not because they're lazy and don't have goal in their life. They do feel the same like other people but they're just unlucky. How should you describe life to them? I know, you can just simply ignore them. This may enraged them. And if they have lost their track on a good path, it's not wrong to pick the bad path to archive happiness in this temporary life.

Don't describe life as unfair. Because if you do, you're being unfair.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

By being frank and truthful and not basing their morals on a book of lies and fallacies.

 

[waitasec]

I'm not living in an unfair world.

If your life is fairly good, why others don't? This is the chaos that i'm talking about.

Sometimes, those people that having a hard life is not because they're lazy and don't have goal in their life. They do feel the same like other people but they're just unlucky. How should you describe life to them? I know, you can just simply ignore them. This may enraged them. And if they have lost their track on a good path, it's not wrong to pick the bad path to archive happiness in this temporary life.

Don't describe life as unfair. Because if you do, you're being unfair.

and?

what moral act can god achieve through a person who believes than that of a person who doesn't believe cannot?

 

[9Westy9]

I'm not living in an unfair world.

Open you eyes. There are millions of children starving in Africa right now whereas in the western world most children are sat at home playing video games. You call that fair?

If your life is fairly good, why others don't? This is the chaos that i'm talking about.

and this is due to atheism? How do you know this?

Sometimes, those people that having a hard life is not because they're lazy and don't have goal in their life. They do feel the same like other people but they're just unlucky. How should you describe life to them? I know, you can just simply ignore them. This may enraged them. And if they have lost their track on a good path, it's not wrong to pick the bad path to archive happiness in this temporary life.

I'd tell them that life isn't fair. Point them to what their life would be like if they were born in Africa for example. Then re-assure them that they're doing the right thing. The next step would then be to help make their life better in whatever way possible.

Don't describe life as unfair. Because if you do, you're being unfair.

lol what? Care to explain?

 

[Photonic]

THE DAILY STAR :: News :: Middle East :: Saudi woman beheaded for 'sorcery'

Found this today.

Yes, tell us atheists how to be moral, please.

 

[Looncall]

Being injustice nowadays too give you something. It shouldn't always be seen. People that being under this injustice will live in vain.

Have you ever heard of being good has not always receive a good return? How you suppose to describe live of the people that leave in this condition. Being good and kind to others but receive opposites thing in return. Being good and hardworking but finally die in vain under injustice.

Is their life is meaningless and not the same as yours? Do you only care about your life and just to ignore the people that live under that kind of circumstance? Do their life is better Death than alive? You decide it.

It is interesting that the places that suffer most from the injustices you complain of tend to be the same places that are highly religious.

I am pleasantly surprised by the so-called Arab Spring uprisings where people are doing battle with injustices, but I see with despair that religious factions seem to be subverting those revolutions. We must watch with hope that it all turns out well.

Observation supports my view that a population can better its lot only if it frees itself from superstition.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

THE DAILY STAR :: News :: Middle East :: Saudi woman beheaded for 'sorcery'

Found this today.

Yes, tell us atheists how to be moral, please.

I have told you. Sorcery is not in the western side of the world. The westerner has done what should be done to banish sorcery from the knowledge and face of their land.

But it still active especially in South East Asia(Personal Opinion). Even I have experience that related to sorcery. If you don't believe in something that exist, then it's up to you. But if you watch a TV news in Indonesia, a bulletproof man is shot by rifle and still not dead. Finally, they aim for his ring. Boom..Instant dead of another sorcerer. He's informed to have killed a man that come with a policeman to collect debt.

What they usually do? Well, they separate a marriage, kill, claim to have give protection for some people and much more. But it's only limited to bad cause. You must be thinking that I'm a liar. No point.

Sorcery is mention in Al-Quran, discussed in old book from the past Ulama' and
present this day. Nothing to hide. Indeed, it's well aware by the locals.

Each year, there will always a 'possession' season when student playing with such forbidden practice. It happen each year, and it disturbing the learning process in school. Almost every year I guess. It also happen because of inherited sorcery knowledge known as 'saka' in Malay. It's not interesting actually. The victims is only girl so far.

 

[Photonic]

I have told you. Sorcery is not in the western side of the world. The westerner has done what should be done to banish sorcery from the knowledge and face of their land.

But it still active especially in South East Asia(Personal Opinion). Even I have experience that related to sorcery. If you don't believe in something that exist, then it's up to you. But if you watch a TV news in Indonesia, a bulletproof man is shot by rifle and still not dead. Finally, they aim for his ring. Boom..Instant dead of another sorcerer. He's informed to have killed a man that come with a policeman to collect debt.

What they usually do? Well, they separate a marriage, kill, claim to have give protection for some people and much more. But it's only limited to bad cause. You must be thinking that I'm a liar. No point.

Sorcery is mention in Al-Quran, discussed in old book from the past Ulama' and
present this day. Nothing to hide. Indeed, it's well aware by the locals.

Each year, there will always a 'possession' season when student playing with such forbidden practice. It happen each year, and it disturbing the learning process in school. Almost every year I guess. It also happen because of inherited sorcery knowledge known as 'saka' in Malay. It's not interesting actually. The victims is only girl so far.

It's not in the western world because most of us realize it doesn't exist.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

It's not in the western world because most of us realize it doesn't exist.

Say what is to be say. Believe what you want to believe. But I honestly telling the truth. Al-Quran mention about it, hadith mention about it and the ulama' from the past also write about it. All the discussion about sorcery may make Islam sound nuts, but it do exist.

Why in the world I suppose to believe in a religion that discuss about something that doesn't exist in our daily life? I've experience it. But whether you believe or not, it is exist and always will. I can assure you that I'm dead serious in religion matter. Basically, not believing in God is out of the truth range for me with the present of supernatural.

In popular culture, sorcerer is also described to be in the western world and will be sentenced to death by the King or Queen in the movies. I wonder if they're once practiced in the west.