Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[KWED]

They are the facts surrounding the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, the historical facts.

His Revelation is what He accomplished (His Mission on earth/ the history of His Cause)
That can be determined by reading about His mission in books such as the following:
God Passes By (1844-1944)
The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

But there is nothing in the historical biography of Bahaullah that shows he was a messenger of god. You only have his claims. And those claims have no evidence (or facts) to support them.

 

[KWED]

No, I did not mean that at all but I can see how clumsy that sounded so let me re-word it.

There is an available body of facts about my religion and those facts indicate to me that my religion is true.

Name one of these "facts" that indicates your religion is true.

 

[samtonga43]

I never said that you were committing an crime. You can forget the whole thing. It is history. I do not live in the past.
I will let you know if I 'feel' like I am being stalked again.

***
Sorry, Tb, but I cannot “forget the whole thing”. You have accused me of stalking (on a public forum), and have implied criminal behavior. What would your reaction have been had I levelled an accusation of this severity against you?

You brush all this off as “history”, but your (as yet unfounded) accusations are still there, for all to see.

Therefore, I ask again:

1. Please show your evidence that I have “followed you from thread to thread”.

2. Please identify the ‘certain behaviors’ I am exhibiting.


Thank you.

 

[Trailblazer]

But there is nothing in the historical biography of Bahaullah that shows he was a messenger of god. You only have his claims. And those claims have no evidence (or facts) to support them.

That's right. There is no proof that Baha'u'llah ever got messages from God since that would be impossible to prove.
Proof is verifiable evidence and such a claim cannot be verified since Baha'u'llah is the only one who knew what happened to Him.

The facts about His Person and His Life and Mission which are supporting evidence for the claims, but the claims must be believed on faith since they can never be proven.

 

[Trailblazer]

Name one of these "facts" that indicates your religion is true.

All the facts indicate that it is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, Tb, but I cannot “forget the whole thing”. You have accused me of stalking (on a public forum), and have implied criminal behavior. What would your reaction have been had I levelled an accusation of this severity against you?

I did not imply criminal behavior. I only posted the definition of stalking. I did not say you were 'doing' what the definition says.

If someone said they felt like they were being stalked by me I would look at what they said that and what I was doing that might cause them to think that. I would look at how I had behaved.

Then don't forget, but I have forgotten and I am done with this.

Happy trails.

 

[Tiberius]

I can say whatever I want to say. This is a public forum.

The claims are in the writings but the writings contain more than claims.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe about that.

Let me rephrase it then, since you obviously missed the implication.

You can't say they are not the same thing and then say the claims are a part of the writings and expect people to believe you.

 

[Tiberius]

Just because people are on the same threads I am on that does not mean they are stalkers. What determines if they are stalking me is if they FOLLOW ME from thread to thread and exhibit certain behaviors.

What is being stalked like?

A crime in many jurisdictions, it generally involves unwanted or obsessive attention, following, harassing, or monitoring behavior that might cause a reasonable person to experience fear. Jan 13, 2017

What It Feels Like to Be Stalked (Let Alone Three Times) - GoodTherapy
https://www.goodtherapy.org › blog › what-it-feels-like-t...

Well, we were in a thread, and then you started a thread about whether Mr B's prophecies were coming true and I replied there. That certainly seems to count as me following you to a thread, and yet you don't call me a stalker.

 

[Tiberius]

My beliefs have an available body of facts or information indicating *to me* that they are true.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Your interpretation of the body of facts could be flawed. You need some way of getting independent verification.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let me rephrase it then, since you obviously missed the implication.

You can't say they are not the same thing and then say the claims are a part of the writings and expect people to believe you.

The claims are part of the writings because the claims are in the writings... Part of the writings are claims but not all of the writings are claims. Teachings and laws are not claims.

Do you have a problem with the claims being in the writings? If the claims of Baha'u'llah were not in the writings of Baha'u'llah how would we know what His claims were?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, we were in a thread, and then you started a thread about whether Mr B's prophecies were coming true and I replied there. That certainly seems to count as me following you to a thread, and yet you don't call me a stalker.

Stalking is not just following someone.

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention, following, harassing, or monitoring behavior that might cause a reasonable person to experience fear.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=what+does+a+stalker++do

You are not a stalker because you are not giving me unwanted or obsessive attention, following me, harassing me, or monitoring me. You are my favorite atheist, remember?

 

[samtonga43]

I did not imply criminal behavior. I only posted the definition of stalking. I did not say you were 'doing' what the definition says.

The obvious question is, “Why did you post the following, in your post to me, concerning the act of stalking”:--
"A crime in many jurisdictions, it generally involves unwanted or obsessive attention, following, harassing, or monitoring behavior that might cause a reasonable person to experience fear".
?

If someone said they felt like they were being stalked by me I would look at what they said that and what I was doing that might cause them to think that. I would look at how I had behaved.

Oh, I certainly did look at all that, but I (and others) could see nothing that could possibly elicit an accusation of stalking.

Then don't forget, but I have forgotten and I am done with this.

You may be ‘done with this’, but I’m afraid I cannot allow your accusations to remain. Before I take this further, I must ask you to either remove them, or apologize.

Thank you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your interpretation of the body of facts could be flawed. You need some way of getting independent verification.

Facts are objective, and people interpret what these facts mean subjectively

Whether or not the facts are significant, whether they mean that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, is a subjective determination.

 

[Trailblazer]

You may be ‘done with this’, but I’m afraid I cannot allow your accusations to remain. Before I take this further, I must ask you to either remove them, or apologize.

I am not afraid of your threats but I will remove the posts that reference stalking if you want to provide me the post numbers because I have no need for the posts to remain.

I will not apologize because I did nothing wrong. I was just defending myself for your constant and vicious criticism. Do you see me complaining about any other posters? No. That should tell you something if you can think logically.

 

[ppp]

I am not afraid of your threats but I will remove the posts that reference stalking if you want to provide me the post numbers because I have no need for the posts to remain.

I will not apologize because I did nothing wrong. I was just defending myself for your constant and vicious criticism. Do you see me complaining about any other posters? No. That should tell you something if you can think logically.

When you accuse someone of a crime because you are offended by what they say, you are doing something wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

When you accuse someone of a crime because you are offended by what they say, you are doing something wrong.

When someone constantly criticizes and insults someone they are doing something wrong.
Cyberstalking: Prevention, Consequences, and Coping

I did not accuse anyone of a crime.

 

[Tiberius]

The claims are part of the writings because the claims are in the writings... Part of the writings are claims but not all of the writings are claims. Teachings and laws are not claims.

Do you have a problem with the claims being in the writings? If the claims of Baha'u'llah were not in the writings of Baha'u'llah how would we know what His claims were?

Okay then.

Do you agree that my post 5547 is evidence that I can turn into a firebreathing dragon?

 

[Tiberius]

Stalking is not just following someone.

Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention, following, harassing, or monitoring behavior that might cause a reasonable person to experience fear.
what does a stalker do - Google Search

Are you suggesting that Samtonga43 is causing you to experience fear?

You are not a stalker because you are not giving me unwanted or obsessive attention, following me, harassing me, or monitoring me. You are my favorite atheist, remember?

The vast majority of my posts on this site for many months now have been responses to you. And I certainly followed you to the "Prophecies of Mr B" thread.

 

[Tiberius]

Tony, after all this time I think I finally realized what the problem is. @Tiberius believes in predestination and that is why he does not believe we have any choice.

I most certainly do NOT believe in predestination.

 

[Tiberius]

As I just told Tony, after all this time I think I finally realized what the problem is. @Tiberius believes in predestination and that is why he does not believe we have any choice. So he believes that the blue shirt is not an option because God has predestined that he will wear a red shirt! If everything is predestined there cannot be any free will to choose.

I do NOT believe in predestination, and I do NOT believe in God.

I am pointing out the logical inconsistency between a God who knows the future with 100% accuracy and the ability for people to freely chose.