Atheists: What would be evidence of God’s existence?

[Sheldon]

Where did I say that the deity is 100% certain you will turn right but you can still turn left?

You claimed earlier in a response to another poster that your deity was 100% certain what choice we would make. Since you're struggling to understand what that logically means, I offered the simplest scenario I could for you, with just two choices. This obviously means that if a deity existed and knew the one choice I would make, the other choice would be logically negated.

 

[Sheldon]

You absolutely did not explain WHY.

You said: if a deity exists and knows which choice I will make, then ipso facto there is only one choice that I can make,

But you did not explain WHY there is only one choice you can make.

There are only two choices, you claim it knows which one I will choose? How much explaining can this need.

Lets try maths...

You have 2 choices, 1 is taken away, now how many are left?

 

[Sheldon]

I said: "I am claiming that the deity always knew the choice you would make."

Why does that limit your choice? Explain why.

This is not that complicated.

2 -1 = 1

Not sure I can simplify it anymore to be honest.

 

[Trailblazer]

This obviously means that if a deity existed and knew the one choice I would make, the other choice would be logically negated.

I understand that this is just too far over your head to understand but don't feel bad because I have been discussing it with atheists for nine years and as I recall only one atheist ever understood it.

But since I am a glutton for punishment I keep trying to explain it.

There is not only one choice you could make. You could have made any choices that were available to you.
Whatever choice you decided to make, God would have known that was the choice you would make since God is all-knowing.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, but it does not mean that you provided an answer either. A link that you cannot even begin to explain is not of any use in a debate.

It may have a lot to do with this debate, all.depends on one's frame of reference.

You could supply your reason as to why the quotes can not be used as evidence for God?

Remember God is not Material. We are in fact discussing the power that maintains all creation.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

There are only two choices, you claim it knows which one I will choose? How much explaining can this need.

I did not claim to know which one you will choose.

Lets try maths...

You have 2 choices, 1 is taken away, now how many are left?

That is a red herring because no choices were taken away.

You still did not explain WHY there is only one choice you can make. I am still waiting.

 

[Trailblazer]

2 -1 = 1

Not sure I can simplify it anymore to be honest.

That won't work because you STILL did not explain why one choice was taken away.

 

[Sheldon]

There is not only one choice you could make.

There is the deity knows the one choice I can make.

I'll try again...2-1 = 1.

 

[Sheldon]

God is not Material. We are in fact discussing the power that maintains all creation.

2 claims, zero objective evidence.

 

[Sheldon]

I did not claim to know which one you will choose.

I did not claim you claimed to know, I said you claimed a deity knew. I've enlarged and emboldened the working for clarity. .

Sheldon There are only two choices, you claim it knows which one I will choose? How much explaining can this need.

That is a red herring because no choices were taken away.

There were only 2, there is only one to be made, by making a choice we take the other away. Ipso facto if a deity existed and knew which ONE we will choose, before we make it, then that rationally negates the other choice.

You still did not explain WHY there is only one choice you can make. I am still waiting.

that's not true now is it, one more time then read this post and if one choice out of two is known before hand, then I can't make the other one without your deity being wrong in your claim.

 

[Sheldon]

That won't work because you STILL did not explain why one choice was taken away.

Yeah I did, you may not understand it, though I'm dubious about that claim as well, but I have explained it as simply as I can several times.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is the deity knows the one choice I can make.

I'll try again...2-1 = 1.

That's true, you can only make one choice and the deity knows what choice you will make, but you had more than one choice you could have made.

There is not only one choice you could have made.

Whatever choice you had made, the deity would have known that was the choice you would have made.

 

[Sheldon]

That won't work because you STILL did not explain why one choice was taken away.

There are only 2 to make, I can only make 1, you claimed a deity knew which 1 before I made it, thus the other 1 is not an option, else your deity would be wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

There were only 2, there is only one to be made, by making a choice we take the other away. Ipso facto if a deity existed and knew which ONE we will choose, before we make it, then that rationally negates the other choice.

if a deity existed and knew which ONE we will choose, before we make it, then that rationally DOES NOT negate the other choice because we could have made the other choice in which case the deity would have known that other choice was the one we would make before we made it.

that's not true now is it, one more time then read this post and if one choice out of two is known before hand, then I can't make the other one without your deity being wrong in your claim.

There is no such thing as 'before hand' for the deity. The deity knows all things simultaneously and does not exist in time.

The deity's knowledge of everything that is going to happen in this world in no way affects what happens in this world.

 

[Link]

Yeah I did, you may not understand it, though I'm dubious about that claim as well, but I have explained it as simply as I can several times.

You are correct about this, but it's impossible to know the future because it has not happened. So why argue over an impossibility?

 

[Link]

if a deity existed and knew which ONE we will choose, before we make it, then that rationally DOES NOT negate the other choice because we could have made the other choice in which case the deity would have known that other choice was the one we would make before we made it.

There is no such thing as 'before hand' for the deity. The deity knows all things simultaneously and does not exist in time.

The deity's knowledge of everything that is going to happen in this world in no way affects what happens in this world.

He is correct. If God knows the future, that there is no options to choose from, there is only the one that will occur.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are only 2 to make, I can only make 1, you claimed a deity knew which 1 before I made it, thus the other 1 is not an option, else your deity would be wrong.

There are only 2 to make, you can only make 1. I claimed a deity knew which 1 before you made it, but I also claimed that the other choice would have been an option. I claimed that whichever choice you had made the deity would have been right because the deity has always known which choice you would make.

 

[Link]

There are only 2 to make, you can only make 1. I claimed a deity knew which 1 before you made it, but I also claimed that the other choice would have been an option. I claimed that whichever choice you had made the deity would have been right because the deity has always known which choice you would make.

How can it be an option if you are bound to choose it and what the hell is the purpose of all the test in real life, if God knows before hand what choices we are going to make.

 

[Trailblazer]

He is correct. If God knows the future, that there is no options to choose from, there is only the one that will occur.

Please explain why if God knows the future there are no options to choose from.

ONLY if God had predetermined the future would that be the case but if we have free will that cannot be the case.

 

[Link]

Please explain why if God knows the future there are no options to choose from.

ONLY if God had predetermined the future would that be the case but if we have free will that cannot be the case.

It's simple, if God knows the future, it means he determined to be that before hand, and you are going to choose the one he knows you are going to choose.

There is no way to know the future unless God determined it before hand. He is above doing that, so the future is unknown.

Also, how do you pray to God thinking it's all set.