Per your view that basically every verse in the Bible foreshadows Jesus, how come the Bible doesn't just read: "Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus" x 23204?
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Awaiting a false messiah?
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
- Start date
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I actually find that hard to believe. Generally speaking, when offering interpretation of scriptures, I am accused of spirtualizing passages that Jews claim are to be taken literally. Now you are telling me that that I should not take a passage literally because it should be spiritualized!
The answer to this confusion over what is meant to be literal, and what is meant to be spiritual, is to do as I suggest and treat all scripture as a parable. That way, you have both a literal meaning and a spiritual one.
It does if only you'd read it right
If you think Jews read every verse in the Tanach literally, then clearly, for all of the supposed many debates you've had with Jews, you haven't been paying much attention.
Sorry, I don't know how to read. I didn't pay much attention in first grade. I bluffed my way into university.It does if only you'd read it right
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
If God only sends one Messiah, in keeping with his own oneness and Truth, then all the prophecies should be fulfilled in one individual, as it was in David (servant and king), the 'type' of the Messiah.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
The answer to that is given in 1 Corinthians 2:7,8.
'But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory'.
The theology I learned is that Scripture is essentially a Verbal Incarnation of the Word of God, so this applies. But as Rival pointed out, others do not have our understanding, which is to be expected as even the Lord Jesus and St. Paul His Apostle spoke of that and it's causes. All of that's just my opinion though.
It should come as no surprise to you that I find that explanation illogical for a number of reasons. First, however, I'll note that I assume this line came because one of the Corinthians wised up for a moment and deigned to ask what I just asked, so kudos to that dude for using his head for a moment. Now, it's illogical for the following reasons:
a. If Jesus really had to have died, I'm sure god could have set him up in a sitch that would have had him killed, regardless if all of the Jews recognized his greatness. All things considered, in the end it was, indeed, the Romans that had him killed.
b. I mean, Jesus was apparently a common name at the time. Having a text that only has the name Jesus in it over and over would not be really helpful in identifying "the one true Jesus".
c. This point seems to absolve the Jews of blame for the death of Jesus, which is not really in line with the rest of the NT. Seems like Paul is trying to smooth things over with the Jewish members of the Corinth church. Had a non-Jewish church asked Paul this question, what would he have answered?
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What applies?
That the Scriptures are all about Jesus, again and again, endlessly (a point you deduced from seeing how they were being interpreted by RedemptionSong). And in my opinion so is all creation itself, it's just Jesus again and again, without end.
In my opinion St. Paul spoke of this and it's causes in Romans 11 and 1 Corinthians 1-2, also St. John the Apostle in his Gospel. It is rather to be expected and also in my opinion not fought against. Sight and unity are gifts of God, for remember what the Lord said to Moses: "Who has given a mouth to man, and who has made the very hard of hearing, and the deaf, the seeing and the blind? have not I, God?" But of course that is just a Christian interpretation.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
A broader reading of the NT, and Tanakh, shows that when you smite the shepherd, the flock are scattered. So, Jesus was not supported by anyone, except his heavenly Father, in his hour of darkness. Both Jews and Gentiles bear responsibility for Jesus' crucifixion and death.
The clues as to what to expect in a Messiah are to be found spread all over the Torah, Prophets and Writings, as Jesus himself showed. The fact that Jews today focus purely on Messianic judgement, and not on the mercy of the good shepherd, is a mistake, I believe.
That the prophecies of the 'Anointed One' should be concealed in Hebrew scripture is not to prevent Jews recognising him, but to prevent spiritual 'powers and principalities' from using men to thwart God's plans.
You believe man can thwart G-d's plans?
Oh, I don't know about that. When King Amon was killed, the people were quick to slay his murderers and to crown Josiah in his stead.
Indeed it is a mistake, being that this is not something Jews believe.
Ah, dark angels and other theological concepts made up by Christians?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
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You asked a question, I tried to answer it. If you read the link I provided, it says that there are different individuals who had messianic potential over the years. We Jewish people need to merit the redemption. So the course of events is not set.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Was Amon the good shepherd? It just happens that the full quotation can be found in Zechariah 13:7: 'Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn my hand upon the little ones'.
Is God not Spirit? Did God not create angels? How is it that you find the spiritual realm so difficult to accept?