Babyhood to adulthood

[Kilgore Trout]

I only come here to practice explaining evolution to children.

It's a lot less work with most children.

 

[FearGod]

That makes absolutely no sense. If we get an assortment of randomly sized pebbles, it makes sense that some would fit through a sieve and others would not. The pebbles are not "forcing" anything. It's the sieve that sorts one set of pebbles from another.

Do you think the small pebbles will pass without someone to hardly move the sieve ?

In the case of pebbles, erosion. In the case of living organisms, mutation. In either case, the cause the variation is irrelevant. What matters is that there is a process which selects and separates them.

Still separating them in your example needs external force.

I'm not comparing the complexity of DNA to anything. I'm comparing the process of natural selection selecting from a random assortment of living organisms to a sieve selecting from a random assortment of sizes of pebbles. It really is that simple.

Yes it is so simple.

Do you or do you not understand that when you sieve something, just as when you apply any kind of selective pressure to any random assortment of things, what you end up with is more specified than the whole? This is very simple logic.

Of course it is very simple.

 

[idav]

I only come here to practice explaining evolution to children.

It's a lot less work with most children.

You aint kidding. I didn't have to explain much at all to my kid. I just stuck my little one in front of Spore and next thing I know the school is telling me my kid is explaining evolution to them. Cracked me up, the teacher was shocked like, "how could he know that". I tell you the mind boggles. It was a proud moment to be a parent, the whole time I thought this stuff is supposed to come from the education system.

 

[FearGod]

I only come here to practice explaining evolution to children.

Accepting the Theory as it is means that you only memorize it without the ability to think of it, i can't help you to think more than you could,Tautology is what you good for.

 

[FearGod]

You aint kidding. I didn't have to explain much at all to my kid. I just stuck my little one in front of Spore and next thing I know the school is telling me my kid is explaining evolution to them. Cracked me up, the teacher was shocked like, "how could he know that". I tell you the mind boggles. It was a proud moment to be a parent, the whole time I thought this stuff is supposed to come from the education system.

You have to make a party for that.

 

[idav]

Accepting the Theory as it is means that you only memorize it without the ability to think of it, i can't help you to think more than you could,Tautology is what you good for.

Even my very little kid was able to understand evolution without even being taught. Why do you assume people are just parroting evolution, you don't think we might actually have a grasp on it? Wow your very patronizing.

 

[FearGod]

It's a lot less work with most children.

Yes i think such stupid ideas is only good for children, you'll have a hard time explaining it to smart adults because they'll know how stupid it is, but not all adults are smart, still many can memorize stupid ideas.

 

[FearGod]

Even my very little kid was able to understand evolution without even being taught. Why do you assume people are just parroting evolution, you don't think we might actually have a grasp on it? Wow your very patronizing.

Your child understand that randomness can bring a sophisticated being to life.
Like father like son.

 

[FearGod]

At the core dna isnt all that complex, just various combinations of four different proteins creates millions of species. As the combining of the four letters gets more complex it can make millions of combinations and can be very hard to track but it is very basic at fundamental levels.

Of course we come in on the process after nature has been working on it for billions of years, the natural response is "how the hell". So far humans tell us the answer to that question is evolution.

Even matter, the atom, is very simple in concept. Add one more electron and proton and you get a different element. Keep adding one electron and proton and you get all the chemicals and molecules that make up every single thing we see and experience. It may be hard to believe but we account for the simpler beginnings and account for the path to its current complexity.

Yes the universe is very simple, and even started small.
How great is your mind.

 

[YmirGF]

Till now you didn't understand what we were talking about.

Hehe. And this is coming from someone who doesn't seem to grasp much of anything that is being discussed.

I used to your silly method of repeating the same question for several times even though that you got the answer,they call it trolling,but i call it childish behavior.

It's strange that you label so many as being silly or stupid. I'm not trolling at all, what I am doing is trying to get you to spill the beans on WHY you cannot possibly accept the Theory of Evolution. To the onlooker it is almost as if your theology has turned your brains to mush.

Before you said your reasons were science and logic. That is not possible and therefore it is illogical. There is no science available that will actively dispute the ToE. So that can't be right. Logic is relative to the comprehension level of the person and so that too can't be right. Again, I asked you to be honest, but perhaps that was asking too much.

 

[idav]

Your child understand that randomness can bring a sophisticated being to life.
Like father like son.

And you believe in miracles but the sciency stuff is too farfetched for you? Fascinating.

 

[idav]

Yes the universe is very simple, and even started small.
How great is your mind.

Feargod, the point is the building blocks are simpler and able to produce the complexity we see today. Atoms are building blocks of matter. Dna is building blocks for life all just based off of four protein variations. Simple to complex has happened so often that it is just silliness to deny evolution any more.

 

[FearGod]

Hehe. And this is coming from someone who doesn't seem to grasp much of anything that is being discussed.

I have to accept your views to be labeled as good in this discussion,
Sorry i don't understand the nonsense.

It's strange that you label so many as being silly or stupid. I'm not trolling at all, what I am doing is trying to get you to spill the beans on WHY you cannot possibly accept the Theory of Evolution. To the onlooker it is almost as if your theology has turned your brains to mush.

Why you're so angry and so confused, i just don't accept the theory,do i have to accept it by force.

Before you said your reasons were science and logic. That is not possible and therefore it is illogical. There is no science available that will actively dispute the ToE. So that can't be right. Logic is relative to the comprehension level of the person and so that too can't be right. Again, I asked you to be honest, but perhaps that was asking too much.

Once again, i don't believe that randomness and chances can achieve a good work.

 

[FearGod]

And you believe in miracles but the sciency stuff is too farfetched for you? Fascinating.

Which miracles ?
Could you give examples ?

 

[idav]

Once again, i don't believe that randomness and chances can achieve a good work.

Its just as absurd to say randomness achieves bad work. Good and bad are perspectives in comparison to something else. Really randomness is neutral, good and bad depends on if your the species getting fed or getting eaten.

 

[idav]

Which miracles ?
Could you give examples ?

You believe in miracles in general dont you? You believe life can pop out of the ground but a species changing over time is hard to believe? Seems like people are a lot harder on the truth when its coming from the secular camp. Religious can say all this magic stuff and its believed but science says it happened over a long period which should be easier to believe.

 

[FearGod]

Its just as absurd to say randomness achieves bad work. Good and bad are perspectives in comparison to something else. Really randomness is neutral, good and bad depends on if your the species getting fed or getting eaten.

Randomness can never achieve a good work even as simple as a food recipe.
believing in randomness to achieve a good work to me looks silly, but it is up to you how you see it.

 

[FearGod]

You believe in miracles in general dont you? You believe life can pop out of the ground but a species changing over time is hard to believe? Seems like people are a lot harder on the truth when its coming from the secular camp. Religious can say all this magic stuff and its believed but science says it happened over a long period which should be easier to believe.

Depending on the miracles, it is happening every now and then.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

In a clear manner (not minor), because we are assuming the impossibility.

[youtube]3yNju1_-CMk[/youtube]
Why DNA Proves Evolution Is False And Intelligent Design Is True - YouTube

Sounds awfully similar to the irreducible complexity argument that has been blown out of the water.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you think the small pebbles will pass without someone to hardly move the sieve ?

Again, that's irrelevant, the point is we start with a random assortment, then by a process of SELECTION, we end up with something that is not random (i.e: a specified group).

Still separating them in your example needs external force.

Again, irrelevant to the analogy. And natural selection doesn't need an external force - it is an external force.

Yes it is so simple.

Of course it is very simple.

Then why don't you understand it yet? When you take a group of things - even a group of things that differ randomly - and apply a selection process to it, you end up with something that is not random. So saying "mutation cannot result in a sophisticated organism, because it's random" is meaningless, because all mutations go through a process of NATURAL SELECTION that SELECTS the beneficial mutations from the detrimental or the neutral mutations - making the process NOT RANDOM.

If you understand it, then repeat what I have just explained to you in your own words.