Babyhood to adulthood

[idav]

And why would you refuse science that is based on randomness and chance? What motivates you from dismissing this possibility a-priori?

Ciao

- viole

Thats like refusing to accept the flip of a coin to get heads or tails.

 

[LuisDantas]

No secrets, i refuse science that based on randomness and chances,i don't have an issue with natural selection, it is the normal thing to happen.

How do you know that God does not act through randomness and chances?

And what exactly do you mean by "science based on randomness and chances"? Could you give an example or two?

 

[FearGod]

Pretty much this.

It neither challenges nor needs divine intervention.

So it is about randomness and chances except natural selection which is normal to happen.

 

[viole]

Thats like refusing to accept the flip of a coin to get heads or tails.

Well, if I were angel's advocate, I would say that flipping a coin is not really random. Knowing the perfect initial microstate of the coin, air resistence, etc. I could always guess the outcome.

My question relates to truly random events. What brings theists, and some atheists, to reject that notion?

Ciao

- viole

 

[idav]

Feargod, can you see how a flip of a coin can be both chance and intended? So we cant know if evolution is chance or guided. Did god close his eyes to make creation random?

 

[idav]

Well, if I were angel's advocate, I would say that flipping a coin is not really random. Knowing the perfect initial microstate of the coin, air resistence, etc. I could always guess the outcome.

My question relates to truly random events. What brings theists, and some atheists, to reject that notion?

Ciao

- viole

I am assuming we dont know the result but its fairly predictable. My question would be if god purposely gave himself a blind spot to make creation unknown to himself. Heck could be we give god too much credit in being able to predict from the beginning.

 

[FearGod]

Your getting closer.... now tell us why you cannot accept randomness and chance. You know you want to. Be honest!

Because i believe it is stupid to think otherwise.

 

[Alceste]

Which is very ironical, come to think of it. Evolution can hardly be presented as a challenge to religion or to theism.

In fact, it can't even conceivably be an evidence against the existence of God. Ever.

I know that, and you know that, but creationists were taught at church that evolution is an affront to god, and they tend to believe whatever they were told at church.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because i believe it is stupid to think otherwise.

Is it stupid to notice that some things are not really predictable?

Do you know how to predict earthquakes, for instance?

 

[viole]

Because i believe it is stupid to think otherwise.

So, you think that all quantum physicists are stupid?

Ciao

- viole

 

[idav]

Because i believe it is stupid to think otherwise.

Its stupid to think we know.

 

[FearGod]

Accept

Carry on.

ID interruption.

 

[FearGod]

Thats like refusing to accept the flip of a coin to get heads or tails.

Yes if it jumps by itself and sits in one position and then jumps again without knowing who is rolling it.

 

[viole]

I am assuming we dont know the result but its fairly predictable. My question would be if god purposely gave himself a blind spot to make creation unknown to himself. Heck could be we give god too much credit in being able to predict from the beginning.

Actually, this is a curious question from a pantheist. If God is all there is and there are parts of it that are unpredictable, then God Himself consists of unpredictable parts.

Ciao

- viole

 

[idav]

Actually, this is a curious question from a pantheist. If God is all there is and there are parts of it that are unpredictable, then God Himself consists of unpredictable parts.

Ciao

- viole

That is kinda what I think but I think there is some knowledge in that, it is unpredictable as long as the choice wasnt made. To us it is certainly unpredictable without knowing the positions and sates of every particle in the universe, so we make choices limited to the amount of knowledge we have.

 

[LuisDantas]

So, let me see if I got this straight.

Many Christians and Muslims are taught from an early age that the Theory of Evolution is an offense to God for some reason, perhaps simply because it does not state that humanity was Meant To Be.

I don't know if the reason is clear to them or if it is the same for many or most of those groups.

Therefore, they develop an understanding (quite at odds with the facts, it must be said) that the ToE is malicious, meant to deny the existence of God, and/or supported by suspect motivations and fraudulent evidence only.

If I am not missing something there (and I may well be, but I don't know what it would be), then the anti-Evolutionism movement is simply a manifestation of hurt pride and fear of questioning. It is not even constructive to the very Faiths that it purports to defend.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes if it jumps by itself and sits in one position and then jumps again without knowing who is rolling it.

Lots of things happen in nature without an apparent will, though. Raindrops, for one. Or for that matter, gene mating in sexual reproduction.

Is it that troubling to admit that the gender of a child is random? Or maybe you don't think it is?

 

[viole]

That is kinda what I think but I think there is some knowledge in that, it is unpredictable as long as the choice wasnt made. To us it is certainly unpredictable without knowing the positions and sates of every particle in the universe, so we make choices limited to the amount of knowledge we have.

Physical evidence tells us that it is, in principle, impossible to know the perfect state of any particles. And this is independent from any choice we make.

But in a sense, I agree with you, at least for what concern pseudo random things like rolling a die or the perfect state of our macroscopic brain. What else is free will if not ignorance of something that could, in principle, be known?

Ciao

- viole

 

[idav]

Lots of things happen in nature without an apparent will, though. Raindrops, for one. Or for that matter, gene mating in sexual reproduction.

Is it that troubling to admit that the gender of a child is random? Or maybe you don't think it is?

Its like religion is an investment and being wrong is going bad on that investment. With religion it often isnt material investments, though it may be included, but people invest their very lives and put their souls at stake. It is quite a heavy investment so there is some hurt pride but also can be a let down on what reality has in store, like children coming to grips with magic being fake.

 

[FearGod]

How do you know that God does not act through randomness and chances?

randomness and chances can never bring a sophisticated beings to existence, such as the human beings.

And what exactly do you mean by "science based on randomness and chances"? Could you give an example or two?

We use math and science to develop things, randomness and chances can't develop sophisticated machines, also things around us work in a scientific way which means a designer is behind it ?