Bad things about Christianity

[doppelganger]

Awe...I thought is was the sun.

Partial credit?

Sure.

 

[doppelganger]

BTW, bonus, bonus points for finding the joke in the latin that I posted [#200].

 

[Nullifidian]

Agreed.

Reference please?

I think that may be from Shakespeare, MacBeth or Hamlet. I'll see if I can google it up.

[edit]
Ah here it is, in 2 Corinthians:

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

It appears that the reference in Othello is referring to the Corinthians verse.
[/edit]

 

[adilrockstar]

I thought the morning star was Venus...

Correct

 

[adilrockstar]

The "morning star" is Venus. Thus, the references to "Lucifer" in the Bible are to the planet Venus.

What a stretch. You are really reaching here. This has to be a joke.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

MOD POST

If you cannot post without attacking another or mocking the statements of another, please don't post at all. Further breaking of this forum rule in this thread will result in warnings.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Well since God gave Satan this name (Lucifer) before the world was even created, I will stick with my Bible. You can stick with your worldly view.

God Bless

Adil

Actually, the Roman's named Lucifer, not God.

"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.

So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...."

Source

Lucifer" is the Latin term originally used by the Romans to refer to the planet Venus when that planet was west of the sun and hence rose before the sun in the morning, thereby being the morning star.
The same planet was called Hesperus, Cesperugo, Vesper, Noctifer, or Nocturnus, when it appeared in the heavens after sunset. Although 19th and 20th century occultists would equate other goddesses such as Astarte, Ashtoreth, Lilith, Isis, Cemeramis, Mari, and Ishtar with Venus, links between the cultures and attributes represented are not historically clear. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Aurora, or of Atlas. He is called the father of Ceyx, Daedalion, and of the Hesperides. Lucifer is also a surname of several goddesses of light, such as Artemis, Aurora, and Hecate. 1.

The word appears to have entered the religious lexicon when the Hebrew expression in Isaiah 14:12, "HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR." (meaning "bright son of the morning/dawn," "bright [and] morning star," "glowing morning star," or "shining one, son of the dawn.")2. was translated to "Phosphorus" (the Greek word for Venus as the morning star) in the Septuagint, and then translated into "Lucifer" in the Vulgate (from the Greek Septuagint). Isaiah 14, taken as a whole, is a parable, or prophecy of denunciation against the Kings of Babylon, specifically Tiglath-pileser III 3 In verse 12, the prophet characterizes the arrogance of Tiglath-pileser III as if the king had thought himself fit to appear in the sky as the morning star, but has fallen to earth, being brought low by the vengeance of the Lord against those who would exalt themselves and persecute the Lord’s people (i.e., the Israelites).

Origenes Adamantius (185 CE - 254 CE), an important Christian scholar of the early Greek Church, and Augustine of Canterbury (d. May 26 604/605 CE), founder of the Christian Church in southern England, both interpreted the use of the term Lucifer as a reference to the Devil.
The name Lucifer was applied to Satan by St. Jerome and later to the demon of sinful pride by Milton in Paradise Lost. Lucifer is the title and principal character of the epic poem by the Dutch playwright, Vondel (who uses Lucifer in lieu of Satan), and a principal character in the mystery play by Imre Madach, "The Tragedy of Man". Blake pictured Lucifer in his illustrations to Dante. George Meredith’s sonnet Lucifer in Starlight addresses the "fiend" as Prince Lucifer. To Spenser in An Hymne of Heavenly Love, Lucifer is "the brightest angel, even the Child of Light." In Ovid’s Metamorphosis, Lucifer is the morning star and father of Ceyx. He is described as riding a white horse (clarus equo, book XV.189) and his face is characterized by a bright gladness (see XI.270 ff. Lucifero genitore satus patriumque nitorem ore ferens Ceyx). Also see Books II.115 and 723, IV.629,665.

Source

 

[doppelganger]

BTW, the latin "joke" about the verse I quoted is that the passage is 2 Peter 1:19 from the Vulgate. The word "lucifer" in that passage is referring to . . . .










. . . Jesus!

So, according to the Bible, Jesus is "lucifer."

 

[adilrockstar]

Actually, the Roman's named Lucifer, not God.



Source



Source

My Bible tells me Lucifer was His name before Rome was ever built.

This is really a pointless argument.

God Bless

Adil

 

[adilrockstar]

BTW, the latin "joke" about the verse I quoted is that the passage is 2 Peter 1:19 from the Vulgate. The word "lucifer" in that passage is referring to . . . .










. . . Jesus!

So, according to the Bible, Jesus is "lucifer."

I do not find any humor in your "joke". I find it repulsive.

God Bless

Adil

 

[McBell]

My Bible tells me Lucifer was His name before Rome was ever built.

This is really a pointless argument.

God Bless

Adil

Really?
What version and verse?

 

[adilrockstar]

Really?
What version and verse?

You have now joined my ignore list. Congratulations. :shout

God Bless


Adil

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Adil, you've put someone on your ignore list simply for asking you to elaborate a statement?

 

[adilrockstar]

Adil, you've put someone on your ignore list simply for asking you to elaborate a statement?

You have not had an opportunity to read the other post's in other threads. This person has just antagonized me. They want to debate and don't read my responses. I can tell them something and they don't even read it. They just fire out attacks. They have wasted my time over and over. They have also frustrated me to the point that I got a warning for a rude comment directed to them. After I got the warning I put em on ignore. Don't need any problems because of this member.

 

[McBell]

You have now joined my ignore list. Congratulations. :shout

God Bless


Adil

The term 'Lucifer" is used in these bibles below and ONLY in one verse:
Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

King James Version
King James w/ Apocrypha
Bishops
1889 Darby
1899 Douary-Rheims Bible
1587 Geneva bible
1833 Webster Bible




These Bibles do not have the term 'Lucifer' at all:
Analytical Literal Translation
American Standard version
Comtemporary English Version
English majority Text Version
Good News Bible
God's Word
International Standard Version
Jewish Publication Society Bible
Modern King James Version
Revised Version
1898 Young's Literal Version


So now you see WHY I wanted to know what version and what verse.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I have had the opportunity to read the posts in the thread. You may have noticed that I was the one repeatedly asking if people were able to post and reply in a civil manner in this thread due to the nature of the original question. If you feel as if you need to ignore someone, don't state it out in public. It merely makes the 'mod staff's' job more difficult, as it appears to be antagonizing people.

 

[adilrockstar]

I have had the opportunity to read the posts in the thread. You may have noticed that I was the one repeatedly asking if people were able to post and reply in a civil manner in this thread due to the nature of the original question. If you feel as if you need to ignore someone, don't state it out in public. It merely makes the 'mod staff's' job more difficult, as it appears to be antagonizing people.

Understood. Just got a little ticked off. I am only human.

Sorry


Adil

 

[Feathers in Hair]

No worries! :hug: We're all only human!

Unless we have any aliens posting on here. *looks around suspiciously* Sunstone! Did I see antenae?!

 

[adilrockstar]

No worries! :hug: We're all only human!

Unless we have any aliens posting on here. *looks around suspiciously* Sunstone! Did I see antenae?!

Thank you for being so understanding and non bias. I really appreciate your attitude and fairness.:bow:

God Bless

Adil

 

[MaddLlama]

No worries! :hug: We're all only human!

Unless we have any aliens posting on here. *looks around suspiciously* Sunstone! Did I see antenae?!

I'm a talking llama...does that count?