Badmouthing our country

[SomeRandom]

No one is arrested here.
The English phrase here is covidiot. The Spanish phrase is pandejo, a combination of pandemic/pandemia and pendejo/dummy.

See? In some ways you guys are doing better than us

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, I'm not. Nor do I want to be.

Bad ideas shouldn't be coddled and catered to, and it is Biden's responsibility to address these reckless governors being he is the top dog of the US.

They're not. He can address them in a way that's not discrediting his own country, governors, "and" citizens.

 

[SomeRandom]

I wouldn't call people who don't wear seatbelts having neanderthal thinking and I definitely wouldn't tell them either you're with us or against us. Almost a beginning of a civil war-how does that help?

Really? I would lol
Either that or a drongo (Australian for “moron.”)
And if being called out (rightfully so, imo) for putting public safety at risk is enough to go to civil war over, then I highly suggest that people practice having thicker skin. Geez.

Since he's the president, he has more sway than Donalds.

The Donald literally was President for the last four years and managed to convince people through his social media alone to siege the capital. The Donald literally caused people to act seditiously over claims of a fraudulent election. And you’re worried about sleepy Joe Biden? Really?
Of course the President of the US of A holds sway. Though Biden is not a cult of personality, so arguably not as much as his predecessor.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They're not. He can address them in a way that's not discrediting his own country, governors, "and" citizens.

It's showing everyone the leader of the US gives a damn about this, unlike the previous administration who just said **** it and told endless lies about it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Really? I would lol
Either that or a drongo (Australian for “moron.”)
And if being called out (rightfully so, imo) for putting public safety at risk is enough to go to civil war over, then I highly suggest that people practice having thicker skin. Geez.

Well, I "personally" wouldn't. I mean you guys can call him names (and people who voted from him... hm) but that doesn't excuse he should represent his country by not belittling the leaders and citizens in it.

This has to do with him as a leader.

The Donald literally was President for the last four years and managed to convince people through his social media alone to siege the capital. The Donald literally caused people to act seditiously over claims of a fraudulent election. And you’re worried about sleepy Joe Biden? Really?

Of course the President of the US of A holds sway. Though Biden is not a cult of personality, so arguably not as much as his predecessor.

They both are different as night and day, but that doesn't excuse how he talks about his own American citizens. "If you're not going to help get out of the way." Mind as well build concentration camps or send the unvaccinated maskless on the trail of tears...

if you get my sentiment?

(Side note: With this view of his I'd never be vaccinated/aside from the primary reasons... I wouldn't want to stand in a group that unforgivably badmouths its peers. Makes me feel like a hypocrite to tell you honestly.) ... and, and I definitely can not make justifications to excuse the immorality of it if I did stand with my peers by saying "I'm right cause I helped saved millions."

 

[Father Heathen]

Since states are United and ideally work together it would be badmouthing the country-both citizens and governors.

For example, if I were a CEO of a corporation I can set the head of the departments aside and work with them on things they may be doing wrong and encourage them about things they can do that is right.

If I go in front of the public and tell the people that my department heads are making bad decisions for the welfare of consumers "and" that some consumers are "against us" that sends a bad impression and it definitely influences long-term decisions. Who would want to buy products or services from me when I can't even treat my own people right despite our disagreements.

Who would follow a leader that makes such an example to part of the American public and state leaders?

A responsible leader would do what they can to stop the spread of dumb disinformation that endangers the public.

 

[crossfire]

There are other ways to say it regardless of what it is. As a president (or any type of leader) there should be some professionality than the everyday citizen would have over his or her peers. If they can control their emotions when being a leader to the people that would be great. Though, other presidents aren't quite as good as Biden is to compare.

There really is no way to sugar coat putting children in danger because ones mind has been raptured away by emotional political spirit. If a leader puts kids in danger without thinking, you really shouldn't sugar coat that! If they didn't think about it, they are neanderthal, or whatever word you want to use for mindless. If they did it fully aware and didn't care, then they are evil.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, I "personally" wouldn't. I mean you guys can call him names (and people who voted from him... hm) but that doesn't excuse he should represent his country by not belittling the leaders and citizens in it.

This has to do with him as a leader.

Maybe I’m just desensitised by four years of The Donald’s (admittedly humorous) insulting behaviour or the fact that I don’t really invest any emotional labour with my own political leaders, but I don’t understand the “sensitivity” I am seeing here. My own political leaders have said far worse about their “underlings” and nobody really cared.

I never called any supporters any names by the way. Only when provoked did I retaliate. But as I’m not American I largely just watched from the sidelines, popcorn in hand. Your politics amuses me, to be honest. Well it did until sleepy Joe took over. Now it’s kind of boring.

They both are different as night and day, but that doesn't excuse how he talks about his own American citizens. "If you're not going to help get out of the way." Mind as well build concentration camps or send the unvaccinated maskless on the trail of tears...

if you get my sentiment?

I suppose. Maybe I’m just desensitised
My own politicians have been saying far worse about us for like years at this point.
No one cared. You Americans are way too eager to go to civil war it seems like.
If we did that every time our leader admonished the nation, there’d be nothing left of the place

You do know our fearless leaders only care about money, right? They don’t care about us, so why care about them?
Don’t get so invested in what they say about your fellow citizens, would be my advice. It doesn’t often bode well for your mental health in the long run. Trust me, I’ve seen what happens to folks who get too wrapped up in this sort of thing. I don’t want to see that happen to you.

(Side note: With this view of his I'd never be vaccinated/aside from the primary reasons... I wouldn't want to stand in a group that unforgivably badmouths its peers. Makes me feel like a hypocrite to tell you honestly.) ... and, and I definitely can not make justifications to excuse the immorality of it if I did stand with my peers by saying "I'm right cause I helped saved millions."

Immorality? Interesting choice of words.
If I may ask you. Do you think doing an act that endangers public safety, say speeding, is an immoral act?

Because in my religious custom not getting a vaccine (exempting health reasons) could easily be argued as a highly immoral act in itself. I even heard a similar sentiment from a priest the other day in a random encounter. It was…an interesting day, let’s say
(Seriously, who knew priests had lives? Lol)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A responsible leader would do what they can to stop the spread of dumb disinformation that endangers the public.

Not to discredit its own leaders and citizens. That's never a way to get people to follow him. A responsible leader wouldn't this.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Maybe I’m just desensitised by four years of The Donald’s (admittedly humorous) insulting behaviour or the fact that I don’t really invest any emotional labour with my own political leaders, but I don’t understand the “sensitivity” I am seeing here. My own political leaders have said far worse about their “underlings” and nobody really cared.

I never called any supporters any names by the way. Only when provoked did I retaliate. But as I’m not American I largely just watched from the sidelines, popcorn in hand. Your politics amuses me, to be honest. Well it did until sleepy Joe took over. Now it’s kind of boring.

Unfortunately it's like like us layman who, for some, criticize but then go to work the next day and pet their cat. When you see evidence and hear it that the president is dividing people based on their decisions its worse than the pandemic (in the long-term). I don't know when the US will reach herd immunity but it won't be overnight... so if our president keeps dividing people throughout this pandemic for years and years there's a bigger problem than the immediate one. Think of it like problems like the game Jinga. After awhile you accidently hit one of the blocks and the building crashes.

I suppose. Maybe I’m just desensitised
My own politicians have been saying far worse about us for like years at this point.
No one cared. You Americans are way too eager to go to civil war it seems like.
If we did that every time our leader admonished the nation, there’d be nothing left of the place

Do you see the long-term problem it causes?

You do know our fearless leaders only care about money, right? They don’t care about us, so why care about them?

Don’t get so invested in what they say about your fellow citizens, would be my advice. It doesn’t often bode well for your mental health in the long run. Trust me, I’ve seen what happens to folks who get too wrapped up in this sort of thing. I don’t want to see that happen to you.

When they make decisions based off if that's the problem. I'm glad I'm not part of politics but its hard not to be emotional if you find out later you can no longer be eligible for healthcare unless you vaccinate... it makes it seem like herd immunity is a overnight solution. "Save the world" type of thing. I'm not that stupid to be an activist but I can understand why people would do things-to keep their jobs, their health, their family, and so forth.

Immorality? Interesting choice of words.
If I may ask you. Do you think doing an act that endangers public safety, say speeding, is an immoral act?

I honestly do not see the connection between vaccination status and speeding. If a cop pulls you over for speeding he has evidence. He can say "you were going X miles and hour here is your ticket." When you're unvaccinated people just don't know. A vaccination cop can't "pull you over" because there is no criteria to judge whether you're in danger just a document that says you are. So, it would be unlawful to bring someone to court or give them a ticket for something the cop cannot prove.

 

[SomeRandom]

Unfortunately it's like like us layman who, for some, criticize but then go to work the next day and pet their cat. When you see evidence and hear it that the president is dividing people based on their decisions its worse than the pandemic (in the long-term). I don't know when the US will reach herd immunity but it won't be overnight... so if our president keeps dividing people throughout this pandemic for years and years there's a bigger problem than the immediate one. Think of it like problems like the game Jinga. After awhile you accidently hit one of the blocks and the building crashes.

I didn’t see anything that was divisive in his wording. Perhaps I’m too used to Aussie bluntness.

Do you see the long-term problem it causes?

You mean the capital siege?
You guys are terribly divided already. At least that’s what it looks like from the outside. I don’t really know if Sleepy Joe can do anything about it now

When they make decisions based off if that's the problem. I'm glad I'm not part of politics but its hard not to be emotional if you find out later you can no longer be eligible for healthcare unless you vaccinate... it makes it seem like herd immunity is a overnight solution. "Save the world" type of thing. I'm not that stupid to be an activist but I can understand why people would do things-to keep their jobs, their health, their family, and so forth.

Hmm. I agree that not vaccinating shouldn’t affect your healthcare. But that’s an issue with the US Healthcare sector in particular. That’s cut throat capitalism for you. I sympathise. But the only solution I can offer is just bite the bullet and roll up a sleeve. But that’s your business.

I honestly do not see the connection between vaccination status and speeding. If a cop pulls you over for speeding he has evidence. He can say "you were going X miles and hour here is your ticket." When you're unvaccinated people just don't know. A vaccination cop can't "pull you over" because there is no criteria to judge whether you're in danger just a document that says you are. So, it would be unlawful to bring someone to court or give them a ticket for something the cop cannot prove.

So the science (from multiple different disciplines no less) that have been studying this pandemic non stop, not to mention the entire body of research behind a hundred years of vaccination usage is not enough evidence? Seriously?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I didn’t see anything that was divisive in his wording. Perhaps I’m too used to Aussie bluntness.

You don't? Regardless who points it out-anti/pro/neutral-he's practically begging and calling people names and insulting citizens and governors for their decisions.

You mean the capital siege?
You guys are terribly divided already. At least that’s what it looks like from the outside. I don’t really know if Sleepy Joe can do anything about it now

But at the expense of there being a pandemic, not many people either can see that and/or care.

Hmm. I agree that not vaccinating shouldn’t affect your healthcare. But that’s an issue with the US Healthcare sector in particular. That’s cut throat capitalism for you. I sympathise. But the only solution I can offer is just bite the bullet and roll up a sleeve. But that’s your business.

It has deeper implications than rolling up your sleeve. Especially since herd immunity doesn't happen overnight but it gives people a feeling they are doing something for the country and world.

So the science (from multiple different disciplines no less) that have been studying this pandemic non stop, not to mention the entire body of research behind a hundred years of vaccination usage is not enough evidence? Seriously?

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

If someone (say John) went to court for being told they are putting another (Jane) in danger for being unvaccinated and the judge says "where's your evidence?" and you pull out a list of numbers and stats that says "unvaccinated people are in danger to others because of X,Y, and Z" that means nothing.

If you give evidence that John is endangering Jane not the fact unvaccinated people can endanger others that would surffice.

The facts aren't applied individually so the case would be thrown out.
That and the facts don't tell the judge if the unvaccinated has COVID so there have to be some precedent that says he or she does in order to cite him with a charge for perceivably putting someone in danger.

Think of it this way-the facts are the laws but people who are tried by the law do not always face the same charges not because the laws are wrong but because each person is different.

That and you'd have to have a precedent on why the exempt can be excused and the non-exempt cannot be because if both don't have COVID the judge can't do anything. They can't do anything for a person who thinks they are in danger (because an expert says it) only those who are (because they experience it themselves).

 

[Father Heathen]

Not to discredit its own leaders and citizens. That's never a way to get people to follow him. A responsible leader wouldn't this.

Leaders who are unethical, dishonest, incompetent, etc. *should* be denounced and discredited because they're unworthy of their position.
Abiding the propagation of dangerous disinformation is irresponsible.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

....

Hey. Many people would think likewise. It would be a mess... actually take that back, they already are (Louisiana lawmaker equates mask mandates with Nazi Germany) While I never would have thought to make the comparison with mask guidelines, to think about side of my box it does make sense. The reasoning behind the pandemic doesn't justify how leaders should treat their citizens.

 

[We Never Know]

Really? I would lol
Either that or a drongo (Australian for “moron.”)
And if being called out (rightfully so, imo) for putting public safety at risk is enough to go to civil war over, then I highly suggest that people practice having thicker skin. Geez.


The Donald literally was President for the last four years and managed to convince people through his social media alone to siege the capital. The Donald literally caused people to act seditiously over claims of a fraudulent election. And you’re worried about sleepy Joe Biden? Really?
Of course the President of the US of A holds sway. Though Biden is not a cult of personality, so arguably not as much as his predecessor.

The Donald also said they conitinental army during the revolution took over the airports.

The Donald also said the border wall would go across Colorado.

 

[SomeRandom]

The Donald also said they conitinental army during the revolution took over the airports.

Wow. Those poor guys must have had a damn long wait till their next flight. Lmao

The Donald also said the border wall would go across Colorado.

Was that ever built like at all, by the way? Just curious. I heard there was like 200 feet or something built. But that could have been someone trolling me

 

[We Never Know]

Wow. Those poor guys must have had a damn long wait till their next flight. Lmao

Was that ever built like at all, by the way? Just curious. I heard there was like 200 feet or something built. But that could have been someone trolling me

I actually think around 300 miles were built including fortified existing walls.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hey. Many people would think likewise. It would be a mess... actually take that back, they already are (Louisiana lawmaker equates mask mandates with Nazi Germany) While I never would have thought to make the comparison with mask guidelines, to think about side of my box it does make sense. The reasoning behind the pandemic doesn't justify how leaders should treat their citizens.

Not only is the comparison melodramatic hyperbole, but extremely disrespectful to the victims of genocide. Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers aren't the victims of anything other other than their own stupidity. People who wallow in willful ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and scientific illiteracy don't deserve to be taken seriously.

 

[SomeRandom]

You don't? Regardless who points it out-anti/pro/neutral-he's practically begging and calling people names and insulting citizens and governors for their decisions.

Not really, no. And governors should be called out if they do something dumb. Can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And I sincerely doubt any of said governors lost any sleep over it. They’re politicians for crying out loud. That’s just part of their job.

But at the expense of there being a pandemic, not many people either can see that and/or care.

Yeah I can agree that people are often too caught up in their own heads to see the bigger picture.

It has deeper implications than rolling up your sleeve. Especially since herd immunity doesn't happen overnight but it gives people a feeling they are doing something for the country and world.

Why would the speed of the rate of the herd immunity matter? It’s not going to be overnight, no has ever claimed otherwise. Speeding up the process overall is always the preferred option. That’s been true of literally every vaccine in history. And no, people feel like they’re trying to get their country back to normal ASAP.
That you equate a righteousness aspect says more about you, imo. People who are civic minded probably feel like they are doing their civic duty.
Do you have an issue with measures designed to benefit pubic health overall or something? I don’t understand why the need to be so against people correctly pointing out that a pandemic and it’s casualties will be slowed due to a successful vaccination rollout.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

If someone (say John) went to court for being told they are putting another (Jane) in danger for being unvaccinated and the judge says "where's your evidence?" and you pull out a list of numbers and stats that says "unvaccinated people are in danger to others because of X,Y, and Z" that means nothing.

If you give evidence that John is endangering Jane not the fact unvaccinated people can endanger others that would surffice.

The facts aren't applied individually so the case would be thrown out.
That and the facts don't tell the judge if the unvaccinated has COVID so there have to be some precedent that says he or she does in order to cite him with a charge for perceivably putting someone in danger.

Think of it this way-the facts are the laws but people who are tried by the law do not always face the same charges not because the laws are wrong but because each person is different.

That and you'd have to have a precedent on why the exempt can be excused and the non-exempt cannot be because if both don't have COVID the judge can't do anything. They can't do anything for a person who thinks they are in danger (because an expert says it) only those who are (because they experience it themselves).

So in other words, it’s perfectly fine to ignore multiple scientific experts who study this for a living, from multiple scientific backgrounds no less, because of these potential outcomes? Which we already know about thanks to said scientific experts by the way. The vaccines right now are about slowing down COVID, it’s not a cure, it’s about prevention. Well it’s more like a bandaid at the moment.
It’s about having people not suffer the more severe side affects and hopefully stop the death and long term suffering of people.
It’s not a magic forcefield, its just the lesser of two evils. And the longer people Ummm and ahh about it, the more likely it’s going to find more hosts and therefore mutate much more. Which will be for the worse in the long run, as that’s just how all viruses work in general. That’s just how biology works, don’t shoot the messenger
Right now it’s a choice. Which is fair enough.
But unless a reasonable level of herd immunity is reached in a reasonable time frame, vaccination may become mandatory.

I think it’s become mandatory in NSW, the state next to me. Well I know they’re blocking anyone from entering our state without proof of vaccination anyway.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hey. Many people would think likewise. It would be a mess... actually take that back, they already are (Louisiana lawmaker equates mask mandates with Nazi Germany) While I never would have thought to make the comparison with mask guidelines, to think about side of my box it does make sense. The reasoning behind the pandemic doesn't justify how leaders should treat their citizens.

Please don’t trivialise the actions of the Third Reich like that. The Nazis burned the homes, businesses of Jews, forced them into social isolation with intimidation of violence, literally fired them from all jobs for no other reason than their Jewishness and openly vilified them with hate filled propaganda to the public, encouraging folk to report them and see them as children sacrificing satanic worshippers who controlled the world’s finance.
And that was well before the Holocaust even.

That is in no way comparable to a government saying “hey, maybe wear masks out in public to slow the spread of a known contagious disease.”
Just no. Please don’t trivialise actual historical barbarism and atrocities by comparing the two.