Baha'i and Messengers

[ACEofALLaces]

Im most happy for you to share your views and I’m always ready and willing to have a friendly conversation.

I appreciate the offer, and will stand by and take it under advisement....thanks.

 

[F1fan]

You are entitled to your own opinion. I’m not going to argue with you. If you believe what you wrote is true then good luck to you and I wish you well.

I'm sure ACE accepts your surrender.

What always amazes me is that theists supposedly have a God on their side and they still can't argue with atheists point by point to a successful conclusion. I keep expecting theists to learn the limitations and flaws in their claims in open debate and will stop trying that approach.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's your explanation, is it? That Baha'u'llah didn't claim to BE Jesus, but was just his SPIRIT.....wow!~

Baha'u'llah was the return of the Holy Spirit in another human body.

The "promised one".....you mean the Comforter......sometimes referred to as the Holy Spirit. Are you now claiming that your Baha'u'llah is the HOLY SPIRIT, as well as being the SPIRIT of Jesus. Damn but he sure does get around, don't he?

That's what I believe, but it was not ME who claimed it, it was Baha'u'llah who claimed it.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92

Yes, they most certainly do. The thing that I happen to be noticing is many of the prophecies listed ARE being fulfilled BY Baha'u'llah, even though HE was not the object OF the prophecy. He WAS an opportunist I tell ya!~

Why do you think that prophecies listed ARE being fulfilled BY Baha'u'llah, even though HE was not the object OF the prophecy? That makes no sense.

I dunno about EACH religion, but at least the 3 Abrahamic religions share that same desire/belief. Therefore it is no great mystery that your Baha'u'llah would come up with the same idea.....and make it a Bahai desire.

That is a BIG accusation, as you are essentially calling Baha'u'llah a liar and a deceiver, in so many words. Are you prepared to back that up with something OTHER than a personal opinion?

I HAVE been looking at the evidence, and that IS the impression I am getting so far.

I have NO IDEA what evidence you are referring to.

 

[F1fan]

The Bible has given us the key.

Matthew 7

True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Regards Tony

Awesome, metaphors. Sheep and wolves are judged by the beholder. One person's sheep is another person's wolf. So not only does this not clear anything up, it allows a believer to just go with their gut feelings, which is a highly flawed approach.

Notice these texts give no clear advice, standard, or method. So is it safe to say your method is arbitrary? You seem to have none. Perhaps it never occurred to you to develop a standard and method to discern a false prophet from an authentic prophet. You offer us nothing to trust your judgment.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I'm sure ACE accepts your surrender. .

He's ok...we're all just trying to share and compare as well as question each others beliefs, and get along, ALL at the same time.
That's really asking a lot in such a provocative and sensitive arena as THIS one can be.
Usually I just get called names, accused of being in league with the devil, and treated and maligned as though I MYSELF am some kind of demon.....and then to top it off, they say they will PRAY for me.
This so far is a good place to literally "kick that old can" around.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm sure ACE accepts your surrender.

What always amazes me is that theists supposedly have a God on their side and they still can't argue with atheists point by point to a successful conclusion. I keep expecting theists to learn the limitations and flaws in their claims in open debate and will stop trying that approach.

The thing is if people don’t want to believe something then a thousand arguments won’t convince them. An atheist already has decided there is no God and will always argue there is no God no matter what theists say. So then with your mind made up, what’s the point in me offering arguments? None! It would just be a waste of time because to the atheist there can never be proof of God and you are right. It is a subjective thing.

If we cannot prove there is a God then why ask for proof?

Man’s reason and logic are imperfect and err so are prone to error. So it is unreliable to prove God exists or not.

All the atheist can do is cling to the ‘belief’ that his error prone reason and logic is not wrong as far as denying God. But as he can never be absolutely certain his reason and logic are without error he relies on ‘faith and belief’ that his reason and logic are correct otherwise if he is saying he is definitely, absolutely correct then he would be inferring infallibility and that he is God and therefore accept that there is a God, himself.

Theists on the other hand rely on error prone logic and reason but also some sort of subjective spiritual experience, in addition to believing in a Person or Prophet Who they believe has error free reason, log and knowledge. So theists are relying on a few processes to determine if there is a God or not.
1. Their thoughts - reflection and meditation
2. Personal spiritual experience
3. The Word of God, the Life and Teachings of a Prophet

But atheists only rely on their own fallible error prone human reasoning and logic which affords no perfect guarantee of 100% accuracy.

The theist does not rely solely on human faculties but also other sources which atheists don’t accept. So there’s basically nothing to discuss. It’s human reasoning vs human reasoning and so a never ending argument.

Basically it’s a waste of time debating because atheists error prone human reasoning is not 100% accurate and neither is the human reasoning of the theists. So lose/lose situation or continued stalemate.

 

[F1fan]

The thing is if people don’t want to believe something then a thousand arguments won’t convince them.

Are you confessing that theists want to believe in their religious beliefs, not because they are factual and rational?

Is there a problem with certain people having a high standard for what they judge true, or likely true?

Atheists explain very well why they can't judge religious ideas as true or likely true, or even as plausible, and that is sound reasoning and honest.

An atheist already has decided there is no God and will always argue there is no God no matter what theists say. So then with your mind made up, what’s the point in me offering arguments? None! It would just be a waste of time because to the atheist there can never be proof of God and you are right. It is a subjective thing.

Theists are given many, many opportunities to provide facts and evidence as to why a skilled, rational mind should judge their ideas true. It is no fault of Atheists that the evidence and arguments of theists is weak.

If we cannot prove there is a God then why ask for proof?

Why are you claiming a God exists if you know you can't prove it? How did you come to b believe if there is no proof? It wasn't a reliable process like reasoning. At what point did you decide a God exists? Who told you a God exists? Why did you believe these people?

Man’s reason and logic are imperfect and err so are prone to error. So it is unreliable to prove God exists or not.

Suggest a more reliable method to make accurate conclusions. What perfect method did you use when you decided a God exists? Could you be mistaken?

All the atheist can do is cling to the ‘belief’ that his error prone reason and logic is not wrong as far as denying God.

Gods aren't being denied. It is claims that Gods exist by fallible people, like yourself, that are being rejected due to a lack of evidence.

But as he can never be absolutely certain his reason and logic are without error he relies on ‘faith and belief’ that his reason and logic are correct otherwise if he is saying he is definitely, absolutely correct then he would be inferring infallibility and that he is God and therefore accept that there is a God, himself.

That's an accusation, now prove you are correct, and not making an error of judgment. And you finish it by asserting a God exists, but you haven't demonstrated this God exists outside of your imagination, yet.

Theists on the other hand rely on error prone logic and reason but also some sort of subjective spiritual experience, in addition to believing in a Person or Prophet Who they believe has error free reason, log and knowledge. So theists are relying on a few processes to determine if there is a God or not.
1. Their thoughts - reflection and meditation
2. Personal spiritual experience
3. The Word of God, the Life and Teachings of a Prophet

Then why do theists tend to have experiences only of the Gods they they are exposed to in their social experience? People in Muslim nations never experience Jesus. Nor do people in India. Nor do anyone in remote cultures. The only people who have "relationships" with Jesus are those who have heard about Jesus from other people around them. These believers tend to mimic the religious behavior they are exposed to. Have you considered these facts before you believed what you do?

But atheists only rely on their own fallible error prone human reasoning and logic which affords no perfect guarantee of 100% accuracy.

Again, suggest a method that is more accurate and reliable than reason and logic.

The theist does not rely solely on human faculties but also other sources which atheists don’t accept. So there’s basically nothing to discuss. It’s human reasoning vs human reasoning and so a never ending argument.

What other faculties do theists rely on? Does this include suicide bombers? be sure to include them with your explanation about your superior method.

Basically it’s a waste of time debating because atheists error prone human reasoning is not 100% accurate and neither is the human reasoning of the theists. So lose/lose situation or continued stalemate.

It's odd you spend time debating, then.

Wouldn't God be an advantage for the theists' side? How come it's a stalemate?

 

[Brian2]

Jesus said He would return in the role of the Father. Baha’u’llah is not God but Christ returned as the Father.

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he will give to every man the reward of his works.

The Son of Man comes in the glory of His Father because He is not "another". YHWH gives His glory to no other and Jesus is YHWH whereas Baha'u'llah is not YHWH and so does not get the glory of God and is not the glory of God.
The Son IS the Son, it is not just a role. The Son does not return as the Father, taking another role.
The Son of Man, Jesus will come in the glory of His Father and with His angels and will give to every man the reward of his work.
Baha'u'llah has not done this and so is not the return of Christ.
The PROOFS that Baha'u'llah is not the return of Christ are very simple and easy to understand but are usually ignored by Baha'is and another topic is sought.
Other topics and double talk suck some people in but Christians who see the simple things in the Bible which warn them of false prophets and false Christs are not sucked in.
Baha'u'llah is not the same Jesus that the disciples saw ascent into the clouds in Acts 1 and so is not the return of Christ, of Jesus, of anyone.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are you confessing that theists want to believe in their religious beliefs, not because they are factual and rational?

Is there a problem with certain people having a high standard for what they judge true, or likely true?

Atheists explain very well why they can't judge religious ideas as true or likely true, or even as plausible, and that is sound reasoning and honest.


Theists are given many, many opportunities to provide facts and evidence as to why a skilled, rational mind should judge their ideas true. It is no fault of Atheists that the evidence and arguments of theists is weak.


Why are you claiming a God exists if you know you can't prove it? How did you come to b believe if there is no proof? It wasn't a reliable process like reasoning. At what point did you decide a God exists? Who told you a God exists? Why did you believe these people?


Suggest a more reliable method to make accurate conclusions. What perfect method did you use when you decided a God exists? Could you be mistaken?


Gods aren't being denied. It is claims that Gods exist by fallible people, like yourself, that are being rejected due to a lack of evidence.


That's an accusation, now prove you are correct, and not making an error of judgment. And you finish it by asserting a God exists, but you haven't demonstrated this God exists outside of your imagination, yet.


Then why do theists tend to have experiences only of the Gods they they are exposed to in their social experience? People in Muslim nations never experience Jesus. Nor do people in India. Nor do anyone in remote cultures. The only people who have "relationships" with Jesus are those who have heard about Jesus from other people around them. These believers tend to mimic the religious behavior they are exposed to. Have you considered these facts before you believed what you do?


Again, suggest a method that is more accurate and reliable than reason and logic.


What other faculties do theists rely on? Does this include suicide bombers? be sure to include them with your explanation about your superior method.


It's odd you spend time debating, then.

Wouldn't God be an advantage for the theists' side? How come it's a stalemate?

The Key to understanding about God I believe, is the Word of God, which in this Day is the Word of Baha’u’llah.

I believe God exists because of my knowledge of the Manifestations of God, their Lives and Teachings and studying the Word of God. (Jesus, Buddha, Moses, Muhammad, Zoroaster, the Bab, Baha’u’llah)

The most reliable method to make accurate conclusions I believe is by reflecting on the Words of Baha’u’llah. I decided God existed when I read the Words of Baha’u’llah especially His Book of Certitude.

The Key to open my mind and heart was the Word of God. It changed my life completely. That is the ‘key’ for unlocking the minds and hearts. Unless one studies it, they are unlikely to be able to accept God and His Prophets.

I was once a very staunch atheist. It was the Words of Baha’u’llah which transformed me into a devout believer.

 

[Brian2]

Now we can consider that Jesus when he is talking about the the Father is greater than I, Jesus is really talking about his own Essence and his promise to return as the Father, not as the Son, but as the Father, the same Holy Spirit. Remember Jesus said he had to go away so the Father could come, that the Father would have a new Name, a name we would only accept, if we accepted the Father. Jesus would bring a new Jerusalem, a new Law sent out from Zion all as the Father, the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.

There is so much to consider, so much to unravel, when God has given us all Truth.

Regards Tony

You have so much to unravel and it is a tangled web that has been woven.
For me, I don't have to bother unravelling anything because I accept what Jesus said about false Christs and false prophets and so I know that Baha'u'llah is not the return of Jesus.
Interestingly this seems to help me read what the Bible actually says and not come up with something different.
Jesus did not say that He would return as the Father.
Jesus did not say He had to go away so that the Father could come.
Jesus did not say that the Father would have a new name, a name we would only accept if we accepted the Father.
All your unravelling has only caused you to make the tangled web woven by Satan even more tangled.

 

[Brian2]

I cannot imagine ANYONE, feeling confident enough to stand up and declare that THEY know HOW the universe came into existence. They would most likely laughed at and ridiculed to the extent that puts that person right back into their chair.

People do stand up and claim to know the origins of the universe however. I hear the origins are natural. The thing is that there is no evidence to say that even though some people do point to science and say that it has told us this that and the other and so will tell us how the universe came to be. That is a belief based on faith, like the religious belief and those with the religious belief are told to sit down and shut up because all we have is faith.
Then there are people who say that they do not know how the universe began and they don't mind not knowing. That is fine and is a logical position imo even if human intuition is left out and reasoning based on that intuition is ignored.
What those people really mean is that science has not determined how the universe began and so we don't know.
So science is the bench mark and the only answer has to be from science and so has to be naturalistic.
Atheists and agnostics and sceptics all tell the religious to sit down and shut up and they don't seem to realise that science does not know and cannot know and cannot say that God was not involved. And they do not seem to realise that their answers are based on belief (in their case called "lack of belief").

[/QUOTE]

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Son of Man comes in the glory of His Father because He is not "another". YHWH gives His glory to no other and Jesus is YHWH whereas Baha'u'llah is not YHWH and so does not get the glory of God and is not the glory of God.
The Son IS the Son, it is not just a role. The Son does not return as the Father, taking another role.
The Son of Man, Jesus will come in the glory of His Father and with His angels and will give to every man the reward of his work.
Baha'u'llah has not done this and so is not the return of Christ.
The PROOFS that Baha'u'llah is not the return of Christ are very simple and easy to understand but are usually ignored by Baha'is and another topic is sought.
Other topics and double talk suck some people in but Christians who see the simple things in the Bible which warn them of false prophets and false Christs are not sucked in.
Baha'u'llah is not the same Jesus that the disciples saw ascent into the clouds in Acts 1 and so is not the return of Christ, of Jesus, of anyone.

Baha’u’llah has done this most definitely. I have received my reward which is greater than all the wealth in earth and heaven.

Also, Christ specifically warned of Prophets bearing the name ‘Christ’ in the last days and said not to believe.

Mark 13:21

And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ’; or, ‘Look, there He is’; do not believe it;

He comes with a New Name

Rev 3:11-12

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. – Revelation 21:23.

In the 1858 Arabic Bible that verse says “Baha’u’llah did lighten it”.


It was printed in the London 1671 (1858) edition of the William Watts Arabic Bible for Eastern Churches.”

 

[Trailblazer]

The Son of Man comes in the glory of His Father because He is not "another". YHWH gives His glory to no other and Jesus is YHWH whereas Baha'u'llah is not YHWH and so does not get the glory of God and is not the glory of God.

Jesus is not God, never was and never will be. Only God is God.
Baha'u'llah was the Glory of God as mentioned throughout the Bible prophecies.

The Son IS the Son, it is not just a role. The Son does not return as the Father, taking another role.

That is correct, the Son is the Son of God, not God the Father.
That is correct, because the Son does not return at all, since He never promised to return.
Baha'u'llah, who was the return of the Son of man, one LIKE the Son of man, came in the station of the Father.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

The following verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like the Son of man.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The Son of Man, Jesus will come in the glory of His Father and with His angels and will give to every man the reward of his work.

No, that is not ever going to happen because Jesus never promised to return, nor was it ever in the Will of God to send Jesus back to earth. Jesus finished His work on earth and that is why Jesus said He was 'no more' in the world.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

The Bible proves that the same Jesus is not coming back, so I do not need the Baha'i Writings.

Baha'u'llah has not done this and so is not the return of Christ.

Baha'u'llah has come in the glory of His Father and with His angels and He is rewarding every man according to his works right now.

The PROOFS that Baha'u'llah is not the return of Christ are very simple and easy to understand but are usually ignored by Baha'is and another topic is sought.

The PROOFS that Jesus is not the return of Christ are very simple and easy to understand but are always ignored by Christians and another topic is sought.

Baha'u'llah is not the same Jesus that the disciples saw ascent into the clouds in Acts 1 and so is not the return of Christ, of Jesus, of anyone.

The same Jesus was never slated to return. The angels did not see a body go up, they saw the spirit of Jesus go up.

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of a human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

 

[Truthseeker]

From what I can discern from the scientific perspective, this universe emanated from some "pre-existing phenomenon" called a "singularity". Otherwise, what CAUSED this "singularity" to suddenly expand and then go "bang", is simply NOT known.

Question: Did the singularity exist for eternity, or did it have a beginning in time? There is so much we don't know or at least I know. There are theories of what existed before the Big Bang, but as far as I know no knowledge.

 

[Truthseeker]

Jesus didn't actually deliver ANYONE from ANYTHING.

He delivered some from themselves.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All your unravelling has only caused you to make the tangled web woven by Satan even more tangled.

Oh dear.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

WWEEEELLLLLL, there ARE two separate scriptures in the Bible, in which God Himself is declaring that HE ALONE is the ONLY GOD anyone shall need, as well as the ONLY SAVIOR, anyone shall need.

So much for Jesus being the ONLY one that can do that......Ehhh?

That's why I said the "NT" and not the Bible. I can see why Jews don't accept Jesus as their Messiah. Christians wrote a story that makes Jesus different than what the Jews expected but wrote it and interpreted the Jewish Scriptures in a way to make Jesus better and more than what the Jews expected. When, from a Jewish perspective, he actually did less.

Then, along the way to the Baha'i interpretation, is Islam. I think the Baha'i Faith need Islam the way that Christianity needed Judaism. And I don't see why any of them needed Hinduism and Buddhism. And Hinduism and Buddhism certainly didn't need them, the "Abrahamic" religions. But Christianity is so different, I don't think they needed Islam or the Baha'i Faith. Jesus is made out to be so great, that he needs no one else. He fixed the problem, Adam's sin. A sacrifice had to be made and a penalty paid for and Jesus, the "perfect" sacrifice did that. And I think that is a pretty good interpretation of what the NT is saying. But is it true?

A virgin born God/man that gets sacrificed and rises from the dead? Yeah, it sounded really good 2000 years ago. Still does to some people, but now? No. I like the Baha'i interpretation, (almost), much better. Those things didn't literally happen. Baha'is say that some of the things were symbolic. I think they were just embellishments written into the story to make Jesus into the God/man he became.

So, compared to that, the Baha'i Faith is a return to more practical and reasonable beliefs. Baha'is say no more to superstitious beliefs... That science and religion must agree and go hand and hand. But then have to go claim that their religion came from an unknowable, invisible God that spoke to a man, a special man, a manifestation of God. And then that man tells us all these other people were also manifestations and on and on. As if now we're to believe everything he says as if it's the absolute truth. And how are people supposed to believe that when several of the things that the Baha'i Faith teaches contradicts what the other religions teach?

The Baha'is say that the other religions added things in and misinterpreted their Scriptures, and some of them have completely lost the original teachings of their manifestation. But did they ever have it? If the followers are the ones that wrote it down years later, why would it be accurate? And that's exactly what Baha'is say... that those Scriptures aren't totally authentic. Plus, things that sounded like they were historical events weren't. They were fictional stories written to be taken metaphorically. By the time Baha'is are done with the Scriptures of the other religions, there is nothing that can be believed. The only thing that we can trust to be true about them is what the Baha'i Faith tells us is true.

So, nothing else matters. Each Abrahamic religion has taken out the one that came before it. But all of them are still here, because the new one never comes the way it was supposed to. And never fulfills things the way they were supposed to. There's always some doubt...Enough to keep some people waiting.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus did not say that He would return as the Father.

No, because Jesus did not say He would return at all.

Jesus did not say He had to go away so that the Father could come.

No, Jesus said that He had to go away do He could send the Comforter from the Father.
Jesus was a Comforter, Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus did not say that the Father would have a new name, a name we would only accept if we accepted the Father.

The Bible says that when Christ returned He would have a new name. The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man, not the same man Jesus. That new name was Baha'u'llah.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Sadly, Christians do not bother to think about what these verses actually mean -- what the Spirit saith unto the churches -- yet they have completely disregarded what the Spirit said because they STILL believe that the same Jesus is going to come down from heaven on the clouds.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, how do we discern a false Messenger from an authentic Messenger. Anyone can claim to be a Messenger and fit the description you offer. So you could be duped if you have no operating standard and method to test whether a Messenger is authentic. Can you submit your standard and method?

We have that... Mirza Ghulam Ahmad vs. Mirza Husayn Ali aka Baha'u'llah. In this corner we have coming in as the promised Mahdi... and so on. And in this corner the promised one of all ages... Two promised ones go in only one comes out.

 

[Trailblazer]

He delivered some from themselves.

and Baha'u'llah did the same.