Baha'i and Science

[CG Didymus]

There is a definite flow in Revelation from beginning to end, but like with the Bible as a whole, there are places where it jumps back and forward in time.

Note that in Revelation it specifically says that after the Second Woe, the Third Woe comes ‘quickly’ which is the short period between the the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

The first woe is Muhammad, the second the Bab and the third is Baha’u’llah according to Abdul-Baha in Some Answered Questions.

The "Woes", to me, have nothing to do with Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. They seem to be judgements and the wrath of God being poured out. The Baha'i interpretation bounces all over the place. You make the "two witnesses" Muhammad and Ali and the first "woe" Muhammand also? Plus, all the bouncing around with the dragons and the beasts, ending with the last beast and his mark or number going all the way back to being the date of the first beast. Sorry, it don't make sense to me. And, Abdul Baha only did a couple of chapters? There's ten more chapters after he let off in chapter 12. That leaves way too much stuff unexplained that was supposed to happen before and during the return of Christ.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you're not trying to convince anyone, then why pass along the message?

Because Baha'u'llah told us to.

 

[Trailblazer]

Literally hundreds of other groups, probably numbering 1000 times as many people as the Baha'i faith teach oneness of humanity.

Who are these groups and when did they start teaching that?
Could be they got the idea from what Baha'u'llah revealed. If they did, that is kind of like stealing.

 

[Trailblazer]

The "Woes", to me, have nothing to do with Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. They seem to be judgements and the wrath of God being poured out. The Baha'i interpretation bounces all over the place. You make the "two witnesses" Muhammad and Ali and the first "woe" Muhammand also? Plus, all the bouncing around with the dragons and the beasts, ending with the last beast and his mark or number going all the way back to being the date of the first beast. Sorry, it don't make sense to me. And, Abdul Baha only did a couple of chapters? There's ten more chapters after he let off in chapter 12. That leaves way too much stuff unexplained that was supposed to happen before and during the return of Christ.

Who cares what Revelations means? Everyone thinks they know, but nobody knows and nobody agrees, so why bother trying to figure out what it means? What an utter waste of time because it does not prove a damn thing.

 

[Vinayaka]

Because Baha'u'llah told us to.

That's precisely what all proselytising religions say, except maybe 'God' is used instead. And, yes, you're just following your faith. I stand up to it because it's inherently critical of other religions. Of course I come from a truly non-proselytisinf faith.

In the history of this planet, proselytising faiths have done an absolute ton of harm. The Goa inquisition, the attempted genocide of indigenous peoples all over the place, and much much more. Despite this mountain of evidence for all the harm it can cause, you continue? It makes no sense to me. But carry on. Do what you will. It's your karma to bear.

 

[Vinayaka]

Who are these groups and when did they start teaching that?
Could be they got the idea from what Baha'u'llah revealed. If they did, that is kind of like stealing.

Hinduism has seen divinity within mankind, all of mankind, for centuries before your guy came along. It's not some new idea at all. I'll do some googling for you.

Edited: I couldn't find a specific list of groups, just tons of different sites besides Baha'i sites. Sometimes the language varies but the essence is the same. Here's one:

The Unity of Religions!

My personal view is more one of mutual respect for all mankind, not unity per se. But once you call other religions as inferiour, as Didymus has aptly pointed out, that one goes by the wayside.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are you kidding me? "I do not believe they are wrong, only that my religion is newer and more pertinent to the times."
Baha'is do believe they are wrong. If they take things too literal? They are wrong. If they believe Isaac was the one taken to be sacrificed? They are wrong. If a Jew doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah? They are wrong. If a Christian believes Jesus rose physically from the dead? They are wrong. If a Christian believes in the trinity? They are wrong. I don't understand why can't just plainly Baha'is admit that?

All Christians agree upon the Divine Authority of Jesus and the Bible as the Word of God which Baha’is also 100% agree upon. We have no disagreement at all there.

But there are over 40,000 sects with as many opposing interpretations which are only opinions of scholars and priests not the Word of God and so no one is bound to follow them.

 

[CG Didymus]

I wrote 3, it was when I burned out from teaching,and they were reflective short stories from childhood. Therapy by remembering the pleasant. Not very good writing, but it helped me gain some perspective at the time.

I wrote a book too. But I haven't E-published. It's called, "The Animal's Book of Truth". It's a parody of the Bible Creation story from the perspective of the animals. I think it's hilarious. The main characters are a rattlesnake and a mountain lion and they have to migrate from Eden all the way to Arizona. They cross the ocean on the back of a whale. And when they finally get to Arizona, a jack rabbit tells them that a pair of their kids, a boy and a girl, have to go all the way back and get on a boat that some guy named Noah is building. A true epic tale. It was so much fun writing it, but then... the dreaded rewrites. After revising things to make other people happy I said ^%$&* this #$%#. I'll go on a religious forum and write stuff there.

 

[Vinayaka]

But there are over 40,000 sects with as many opposing interpretations which are only opinions of scholars and priests not the Word of God and so no one is bound to follow them.

40 000 groups plus 1 (Baha'i) and it is THE ONE that has the Word of God? Wow. Just wow! You do realist that probably about 20 000 of those are making the same self-righteous claim as you. The other 20 000 would be termed 'liberal' and be far more tolerant and humble.

 

[Vinayaka]

I wrote a book too. But I haven't E-published. It's called, "The Animal's Book of Truth". It's a parody of the Bible Creation story from the perspective of the animals. I think it's hilarious. The main characters are a rattlesnake and a mountain lion and they have to migrate from Eden all the way to Arizona. They cross the ocean on the back of a whale. And when they finally get to Arizona, a jack rabbit tells them that a pair of their kids, a boy and a girl, have to go all the way back and get on a boat that some guy named Noah is building. A true epic tale. It was so much fun writing it, but then... the dreaded rewrites. After revising things to make other people happy I said ^%$&* this #$%#. I'll go on a religious forum and write stuff there.

Such is the nature of writing. lol.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm finding myself fascinated by Hinduism, still. If it does become my religion, I actually have the Baha'i faith to thank, as once I learned more about Krishna while studying Baha'i articles, I slowly started incorporating him into prayer even when I thought I wanted to be a Baha'i.

 

[CG Didymus]

I gave you Ahimsa, God and a virtuous and holy life. There is a lot in that. There are many, many virtues and Ahimsa is in thought word and deed. Add prayer and meditation.

I looked it up and it sounds like it has a lot to do without harming any living thing. And, if you do, it ain't good for your karma. But, don't you think we should let the Hindus here tell us what it means?

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's the religion version of ethnocentricity. Religiocentricity? Literally hundreds of other groups, probably numbering 1000 times as many people as the Baha'i faith teach oneness of humanity. You're saying your particular small version is a necessity? An addition to? A helpful agreement? Sure. But a necessity? Not a chance, sorry. Height of arrogance and overestimating the influence of a minor almost unheard of faith, by it's adherents.

If you look at the racial animosity especially in the USA and things like religious prejudices and national conflicts which sometimes degenerate into endless civil wars then instead of viewing these problems from their racial, National or religious perspectives wouldn’t an attitude that we are above all one human race end a lot of these problems?

If Muslims viewed Hindus as their human brothers instead of infidels how many innocent lives would have been spared?

By putting aside our prejudices you don’t think that’s a necessity? I believe that as soon as humanity embraces its oneness as it’s real identity instead of imaginary labels then we will be a huge step closer to peace and reconciliation.

But we both agree such an attitude is helpful so that’s good enough.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's precisely what all proselytising religions say, except maybe 'God' is used instead. And, yes, you're just following your faith.

Sharing is not proselytizing. Proselytizing implies intent to convert but sharing does not imply intent to convert. Nobody has any way of knowing the intent of any other person. Even if I was happy that someone chose to become a Baha’i that would not imply intent to convert, because I would never want anyone to become a Baha’i unless they freely chose to do so after doing all the necessary research and investigation.

Baha’is are only supposed to “teach” the Baha’i Faith to people if they have shared and someone is interested in learning more about it.

Share: give a portion of (something) to another or others. https://www.google.com
Teach: show or explain to (someone) how to do something.https://www.google.com
Proselytize: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. https://www.google.com

I stand up to it because it's inherently critical of other religions.

Please show me where the Baha'i Faith is critical of other religions. Disagreeing with some of the beliefs of other religions that have been corrupted by man is not being critical of the religion as it was originally revealed.

Despite this mountain of evidence for all the harm it can cause, you continue? It makes no sense to me. But carry on. Do what you will. It's your karma to bear.

No, Baha'is do not do what other religions such as Christianity have done.
Any Baha'is that attempt to convert people are going against the teachings of Baha'u'llah. There is a quote to that effect but I cannot find it right now.

 

[CG Didymus]

I plainly admit I believe all those things are wrong, but that does not mean I believe the Bible is wrong or Jesus was wrong.
Now what?

Now, if I were a Baha'i, I'd go tell them why I think they are wrong and why I think I'm right. But, I wouldn't keep changing my story and telling them how beautiful and true their religion is.

 

[CG Didymus]

Most recent truth does not equate to best truth.
If there is a more recent truth from God then there is a more recent truth from God.
Baha'is are not trying to convince anyone of that. We just pass along the message.

How about temporally "better" truths than the old truths that no longer work in the modern world. And that someday these truths too will be replaced with better ones more suited to the times?

 

[loverofhumanity]

40 000 groups plus 1 (Baha'i) and it is THE ONE that has the Word of God? Wow. Just wow! You do realist that probably about 20 000 of those are making the same self-righteous claim as you. The other 20 000 would be termed 'liberal' and be far more tolerant and humble.

You misunderstood.. By Word of God I was referring to the Bible. I was saying that interpretations of scriptures do not constitute the Word of God Bible) so can be ignored.

So what scholars and priests say is not authoritative and does not replace the Word of God in this case the Bible. So Baha’is are not disrespecting Jesus or the Bible by having a different interpretation than Chrustian scholars and priests because their interpretations are just their personal opinions.

 

[Vinayaka]

If you look at the racial animosity especially in the USA and things like religious prejudices and national conflicts which sometimes degenerate into endless civil wars then instead of viewing these problems from their racial, National or religious perspectives wouldn’t an attitude that we are above all one human race end a lot of these problems?

If Muslims viewed Hindus as their human brothers instead of infidels how many innocent lives would have been spared?

By putting aside our prejudices you don’t think that’s a necessity? I believe that as soon as humanity embraces its oneness as it’s real identity instead of imaginary labels then we will be a huge step closer to peace and reconciliation.

But we both agree such an attitude is helpful so that’s good enough.

You've changed the topic, as usual. You said Baha'ullah was a necessity. I wasn't prejudiced far before I ever heard of Baha'u'llah, just like tons of other people. The way you talk, everyone needs Baha'ullah just to be a nice person. Well, I have news ... There are tons of really nice people in all faiths. If Baha'is viewed Hindus as their brothers, they'd stop trying to convert us by excessive proselytising. But they don't. So I stand up.

Besides all that, the Baha'i faith IS prejudiced, against gays, against women, and against all non-Baha'i faiths with that superiourity complex.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I looked it up and it sounds like it has a lot to do without harming any living thing. And, if you do, it ain't good for your karma. But, don't you think we should let the Hindus here tell us what it means?

I only mentioned it in response to a question. As Sergeant Shultz would say ‘I know nothing ‘.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, Baha'is do not do what other religions such as Christianity have done.
Any Baha'is that attempt to convert people are going against the teachings of Baha'u'llah. There is a quote to that effect but I cannot find it right now.

Sharing

You misunderstood.. By Word of God I was referring to the Bible. I was saying that interpretations of scriptures do not constitute the Word of God Bible) so can be ignored.

So what scholars and priests say is not authoritative and does not replace the Word of God in this case the Bible. So Baha’is are not disrespecting Jesus or the Bible by having a different interpretation than Chrustian scholars and priests because their interpretations are just their personal opinions.

So Christians, all 40 000 sects got their Bible wrong, but the Baha'is, a non-Christian faith, got it right? I suppose the Baha'is are also the only ones that truly understand Hinduism, Buddhisn, Islam, indigenous faiths of Australia too, right?