Baha'i and Science

[CG Didymus]

All Christians agree upon the Divine Authority of Jesus and the Bible as the Word of God which Baha’is also 100% agree upon. We have no disagreement at all there.

But there are over 40,000 sects with as many opposing interpretations which are only opinions of scholars and priests not the Word of God and so no one is bound to follow them.

So you do believe Isaac was the one taken to be sacrificed? No, Baha'is believe it was Ishmael. Therefore, Baha'i disagree with what the Bible says. Because, Baha'is cannot say it is completely and totally authentic. Which is fine. Who believes any of those stories are real, historical events. They are fiction, religious myth to get people to believe and follow the rules of the religion.

No wait... it can't be fiction... 'Cause that would mean people wrote it and it is not the "Word of God". Okay, you're on your own. To believe the Bible and disbelief it at the same time is something I can't do.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So, um, how old do Baha'is believe the book of Genesis to be? Do they believe Moses wrote most of it?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think the teaching of the oneness of mankind by Baha’u’llah is a very important necessity for our global world. It is not an amendment just a restatement on a global level that we are all one.

If it is a restatement, then the claim of progressive revelation is wrong and Bahaullah lied. In that case, he was just an imposter looking for his own importance. That is what he and his successors did by excommunicating a whole lot of people including Babis and all from his extended family, so that no successor remained after Shoghi Effendi.

Among Hindus, there are a whole lot of enlightened people who restate things that are good for our society and for the world, but they never claim to be prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis of any God or Allah. In the recent times we have had many great people like Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, Chinmayananda, Gandhi. Did anyone claim to be a messenger from God. Even a person like Buddha did not claim that. He just said that the mission in his life was re-establishment of Dharma. Did Guru Nanak of the Sikhs say that he was a prophet/son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi of any God or Allah. You see, that is the difference between Abrahamic religions and Indian religions. Abrahamic religions start and end with a lie. So, what can you believe of what they say.

All this talk of heaven and hell, final judgments, resurrection and eternal life is just selling snake-oil.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hinduism has seen divinity within mankind, all of mankind, for centuries before your guy came along. It's not some new idea at all. I'll do some googling for you.

We are not talking about the divinity within mankind, we are talking about the PHYSICAL unity of mankind, uniting the peoples of the earth.

“One of the great events,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has, in His “Some Answered Questions,” affirmed, “which is to occur in the Day of the manifestation of that Incomparable Branch [Bahá’u’lláh] is the hoisting of the Standard of God among all nations. By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”
The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 119-121

Edited: I couldn't find a specific list of groups, just tons of different sites besides Baha'i sites. Sometimes the language varies but the essence is the same. Here's one:
The Unity of Religions!

Notably, the publication date is long after 1892. Many groups started talking about unity after Baha'ullah came, because they were affected by His Coming and releasing the Holy Spirit, even through they never heard His name.

Who was talking about world unity in the context of the quote above before 1844?

My personal view is more one of mutual respect for all mankind, not unity per se. But once you call other religions as inferiour, as Didymus has aptly pointed out, that one goes by the wayside.

Baha'is do not call other religions inferior. That is complete distortion and fabrication and it is morally wrong to keep accusing us of this with absolutely no evidence, just because he has a personal bias, a bone to pick.

The irony is that it is the Jews and Christians who think all other religions are inferior, not the Baha'is, but the Baha'is are the ones who are criticized.

 

[CG Didymus]

Disagreeing with some of the beliefs of other religions that have been corrupted by man is not being critical of the religion as it was originally revealed.

Since we are talking mostly about Hinduism here... what teachings were "originally" revealed and later "corrupted" by man?

 

[CG Didymus]

I only mentioned it in response to a question. As Sergeant Shultz would say ‘I know nothing ‘.

I know. Me too. So what is "ahimsa"? Let's see what the Hindus here have to say about their own beliefs.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You've changed the topic, as usual. You said Baha'ullah was a necessity. I wasn't prejudiced far before I ever heard of Baha'u'llah, just like tons of other people. The way you talk, everyone needs Baha'ullah just to be a nice person. Well, I have news ... There are tons of really nice people in all faiths. If Baha'is viewed Hindus as their brothers, they'd stop trying to convert us by excessive proselytising. But they don't. So I stand up.

Besides all that, the Baha'i faith IS prejudiced, against gays, against women, and against all non-Baha'i faiths with that superiourity complex.

You are entitled to your views.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now, if I were a Baha'i, I'd go tell them why I think they are wrong and why I think I'm right. But, I wouldn't keep changing my story and telling them how beautiful and true their religion is.

I never told them that their religion is beautiful and true... If the subject comes up I tell them I think Christianity has been corrupted: THE FALSE PROPHETS

But I am not going to waste time telling them why I think they are wrong and why I think I am right, because I do not care what they believe.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Sharing


So Christians, all 40 000 sects got their Bible wrong, but the Baha'is, a non-Christian faith, got it right? I suppose the Baha'is are also the only ones that truly understand Hinduism, Buddhisn, Islam, indigenous faiths of Australia too, right?

All I believe is that the Promised One of many of these Faiths Who was foretold in their own scriptures has appeared. So we Baha’is go our way and they go their way.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are entitled to your views.

He is entitled to his views but I am entitled to point out that I think they are completely wrong.
Trying to convert Hindus by excessive proselytizing? I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life. But if there is any evidence for that I will concede to it. Where is the evidence? Nowhere.

Baha'is are not trying to convert people and the Baha'i Faith is not prejudiced against gays, against women, or against all non-Baha'i faiths with a superiority complex.

That is just so wrong, I cannot even begin to say how wrong it is. It is the exact opposite of what the Baha'i Faith stands for.

 

[Trailblazer]

How about temporally "better" truths than the old truths that no longer work in the modern world. And that someday these truths too will be replaced with better ones more suited to the times?

What a complete distortion. Newer does not equate to better.

Spiritual truth is eternal, it never changes. Only the social teachings and laws changes and the message for the age is new. Why do you have a problem with that? Is that too logical for you?

Spiritual truth is eternal and it is the same in all religions; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy.

“These divine qualities, these eternal commandments, will never be abolished; nay, they will last and remain established for ever and ever. These virtues of humanity will be renewed in each of the different cycles; for at the end of every cycle the spiritual Law of God—that is to say, the human virtues—disappears, and only the form subsists.” Some Answered Questions, p. 47

However, religious truth is progressive and it needs to suit the needs of the times we live in. This refers to the essential message of the Prophet.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.”Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

That means that the Laws of God cannot stay the same forever and ever. It makes absolutely no sense to follow Laws that were written 4000 years ago when the world and the people were completely different.

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, p. 48

 

[Vinayaka]

The irony is that it is the Jews and Christians who think all other religions are inferior, not the Baha'is, but the Baha'is are the ones who are criticized.

Trust me, if a Christian or Jew came on here and degraded Hinduism, or distorted it, I'd be discussing it with them too. But they don't. They just don't. It's not in their scripture, as it is in Baha'i scripture. The very basic doctrine of progressive revelation does just that. Neither Judaism nor Christianity has that doctrine, at least not extending back to Sanatana Dharma. I'd be fine if Baha'i doctrine stopped at Judaism, but it doesn't, it extends all that back to Krishna which is like saying English was the original language in France, just some huge jump that isn't necessary. Baha'i is primarily an Abrahamic faith, and there is no need to extend it outside of that. Our friend Adrian gets this, and doesn't speak much about Hinduism at all, because he knows Baha'u'llah didn't. But for some reason the fundamentalists Baha'i consider it necessary. Carry on.

 

[Vinayaka]

You are entitled to your views.

Indeed, as are you.

 

[Vinayaka]

All I believe is that the Promised One of many of these Faiths Who was foretold in their own scriptures has appeared. So we Baha’is go our way and they go their way.

But that's just it. You don't. You go proselytising (pioneering) amongst other faiths. Hindus (with one minor exception) don't.

 

[Vinayaka]

In the recent times we have had many great people like Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi, Chinmayananda, Gandhi. Did anyone claim to be a messenger from God. Even a person like Buddha did not claim that. He just said that the mission in his life was re-establishment of Dharma. Did Guru Nanak of the Sikhs say that he was a prophet/son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi of any God or Allah. You see, that is the difference between Abrahamic religions and Indian religions. Abrahamic religions start and end with a lie. So, what can you believe of what they say.

And many before ... Patanjali, Tirumoolar, Shankara, Tiruvalluvar, all the Alvars, all the Nayanars, and many many more, in dozens of schools, none of them claiming superiourity.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many groups started talking about unity after Baha'ullah came, because they were affected by His Coming and releasing the Holy Spirit, even through they never heard His name.

The irony is that it is the Jews and Christians who think all other religions are inferior, not the Baha'is, but the Baha'is are the ones who are criticized.

Ah! Nobody ever talked of unity "under his own banner" before Bahullah. I wonder what that kind of unity is.

And that is what your unity and love is. If that is it then it is most despicable. Dont the Muslims do it. So basically, every one is wrong except Bahais.

 

[Trailblazer]

Since we are talking mostly about Hinduism here... what teachings were "originally" revealed and later "corrupted" by man?

I have no idea. I only know what has been corrupted in Christianity.

 

[Vinayaka]

I know. Me too. So what is "ahimsa"? Let's see what the Hindus here have to say about their own beliefs.

Ahimsa is respect for all life, as a result of the view that God permeates all things. (monism, as opposed to dualism) Any disrespect for life is disrespect for God. Jains take it to extremes, but yes, that is the principle. Gandhi's method of protest was based on it, non-violent protest. It is at the very core of Hinduism.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trust me, if a Christian or Jew came on here and degraded Hinduism, or distorted it, I'd be discussing it with them too. But they don't. They just don't. It's not in their scripture, as it is in Baha'i scripture. The very basic doctrine of progressive revelation does just that. Neither Judaism nor Christianity has that doctrine, at least not extending back to Sanatana Dharma. I'd be fine if Baha'i doctrine stopped at Judaism, but it doesn't, it extends all that back to Krishna which is like saying English was the original language in France, just some huge jump that isn't necessary. Baha'i is primarily an Abrahamic faith, and there is no need to extend it outside of that. Our friend Adrian gets this, and doesn't speak much about Hinduism at all, because he knows Baha'u'llah didn't. But for some reason the fundamentalists Baha'i consider it necessary. Carry on.

Have you ever heard me saying what the Baha'i Faith says about Hinduism? How could I when there is nothing in our Writings about Hinduism? Baha'is believe that Krishna was a Manifestation of God and I am not even sure where that is in the Writings. Baha'u'llah never addressed Hinduism, not to my knowledge.

What Hinduism is is a complete mystery to me because there are so many different sects of Hinduism, so at best I just throw up my hands and say "I don't know."

 

[Trailblazer]

I wonder what that kind of unity is.

It is the unity of mankind. It is not under anyone's banner.

So basically, every one is wrong except Bahais.

That is a big fat straw man.