Baha'i and Science

[oldbadger]

A kid in grade 6 would figure out the false logic. But it's a type of psychological conditioning that runs deep. There has been so much self affirmation on it that the patient actually does believe it. For those of us with a more open mind, and no such programming, it's harder to understand, as we have no experience on such.
At one time I thought my Dad was perfect too.

I think it's imprinting, different from brainwashing because the individual delivers their mind to that condition.
Our little dachshunds will notice one pebble on a beach of billions and then want to other.
Imprinting.
Wonderful to see in a Dachshund, but tragic, imo, to see in humans sometimes.

 

[Jim]

Part of your confusion might be from thinking that there is only one “Baha’i Faith.”

What do you mean?

I was thinking of the attitudes, behaviors, beliefs and practices that each person is calling “the Baha’i Faith.” It’s different for each person.

 

[Vinayaka]

The origin and founder of Hinduism is unknown.

That's super. You finally used non-Baha'i sources to get some true information. I'm impressed. We'll see if it lasts, and be sure I will correct you if you make the same mistake again in a few months., as you might just be saying this as of now to suit me.

 

[Vinayaka]

A question of my own - how does one separate Krishna from Hinduism, since not everything in Hinduism may be directly compatible with the Baha'i faith? Such as reincarnation.

Why is the 8th avatar, Krishna, made significant, but not the others?

Respectfully, it'd kind of be like someone giving me a candy bar and someone else asking me what it was and whether the person giving it to me bought it for me. It'd be like me not denying it was a candy bar, and not being able to answer how they knew which kind I liked, but admitting that it existed in the universe and it was safe to eat, while not acknowledging the conclusion that someone probably bought me a candy bar. So at some point, I feel if one's going to accept Krishna, they also tend to accept deeply rooted Hindu beliefs like reincarnation as true. I think. Maybe a Hindu can correct me if I'm wrong.

Hinduism is vast, it's like 100 Baha'i faiths rolled together, maybe vaster than that. Krishna is one major sect, Vaishnavism, and the number of avatars or order varies. Rama is the other significant avatar. There are several views on reincarnation, as well as no belief in it.

So if you want to delve deeper into Hinduism, it's probably better to look at one school, called sampradaya in Hinduism.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe the Bhagavad-Gita is a spiritual treasure which is of great benefit to all humanity with regards to spiritual education. As far as cycles there are Baha’i scholars who have gone into the Hindu cycles and written about them.

I found this one just today so I’m happy to share it with you. Please note it’s only an individual viewpoint not authoritative. And there’s another one I’ve had for a while. Just individual reflections.
https://kprsamy.wordpress.com/2017/12/
December 2017 – reflections

Bhartiya Baha'i: HINDUISM AND THE BAHÁ’I FAITH

So I read that ... He assumed that Baha'u'llah was Kalki and then invented a ton of creative math and other nonsense to 'prove' it. The comment at the end was the most telling. Typical Baha'i stuff though.

 

[Aupmanyav]

how does one separate Krishna from Hinduism,
Why is the 8th avatar, Krishna, made significant, but not the others?

I feel if one's going to accept Krishna, they also tend to accept deeply rooted Hindu beliefs like reincarnation as true. I think. Maybe a Hindu can correct me if I'm wrong.

How can Krishna be separated from Hinduism. That is not possible. The two are intrinsically twined.
It is not that the other avataras are not popular. Lord Rama also is very popular, And so are Siva, Ganesha, Kartikeya (Murugan, Vinayaka's personal deity), Mother Goddess, etc.
Hinduism gives the freedom to choose one's personal deity. We all have our personal choices for candies. And they are all good.

That is correct. Main-line Hinduism accepts reincarnation. My advaita view is a bit different. I accept change of form by dispersal and new combinations.
That means the molecules that constitute me will transfer to a huge many forms; in humans, animals, vegetation and non-living substances. That would be the reincarnation of what constituted me. I do not believe in existence of soul which may be transferred to the body of any other living being.
That is the result of my bachelors study in chemistry.

 

[Jim]

But I may keep up the debating so long as confusing ideas from the Baha'i faith, that seem to contradict that spirit I felt about it when studying for three months, that gist of it, keep getting posted here.

Some of the things that Baha’is say that Baha’is believe look like that to me too, contrary to the spirit of Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions. I think that the beliefs of Baha’is, like the beliefs of followers of other religions, hide the light of religion from people sometimes and even repel them away from it, The best place to see that light might be in the stories each religion tells about its origins, and in community life that revolves around that light.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Question for Hindus and Baha'is:

I'm going to try to be open minded. Could Subh-i-Azal be an incarnation of Kali IF Bahaullah was the tenth avatar (a claim in the Baha'i faith)?

I'm trying to look at all sides.

Subh-i-Azal feuded with Bahaullah and allegedly tried to poison him.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Atheists are supposed to be logical, and most are. If the Baha’i Faith is not important then why do all the people on this thread spend so much time trying to knock it down? I am just trying to explain *my* perspective.

How can we unite with people who hate us and the religion we love? I do not see any Christians complaining about that, only Hindus.

It is because as an atheist I am against falsehood. I speak out freely about things in Hinduism also that do not confirm to evidence, and for that reason many members of Hindu forum also do not like me.

I am a person of 20th and 21st Centuries. I am well within my rights to put forward my perspective. You are in a debate forum and not in the Bahai forum. Did you ever find me visiting that.

From where do you get the idea that anyone hates you. It is just that you have never been able to provide any evidence or logic of existence of any Allah, his sending of his manifestation (Bahaullh), any new teachings that can bring peace to the world, and of any eternal life.

Yeah, look what it's done to Fundy Christians. They are taught everything is literally true, that all the stories have to be believed, from Jesus coming back to life and floating off into the sky, to Satan roaming around in the spirit world, to Jonah getting swallowed by a big fish... then all the way to the story of Adam and Eve. And if they want to get even more literal, then Creation was only about 6000 years ago. I hope Baha'is don't get that extreme.

Well Bahais do say that Bahaullah fulfilled the prophecies in Tanakh, Bible and Quran; so it seems that they do believe that the stories there are true.

Thus Christ has returned 3 times since AD33, known as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Why stop at Bahaullah. Mirza Ghulam Ahamad of the Ahmadiyyas also said that he is returning Christ. Why exclude him and deny a mahdi sent by Allah. By denying Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, you are denying Allah. You accept what is convenient to you and deny what is inconvenient. Truth in your case depends on your convenience!

Question for Hindus and Baha'is:

Kit-kat, oil and water do not mix. Dont try to mix Hinduism with Abrahamic religions. We are worlds apart. Let Bahais make their concoctions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Anyways, I don't remember a thread on this forum more helpful to me than this one.

I'm doing well discussing it, not upset at all if I believe Bahaullah or don't believe in Bahaullah's messages.

Follow your heart.

 

[Vinayaka]

Question for Hindus and Baha'is:

I'm going to try to be open minded. Could Subh-i-Azal be an incarnation of Kali IF Bahaullah was the tenth avatar (a claim in the Baha'i faith)?

I'm trying to look at all sides.

Subh-i-Azal feuded with Bahaullah and allegedly tried to poison him.

No! In my personal sampradaya, there is no such thing as avatara as a concept, so no from that POV, and also no from the general Hindu concept. Kalki has yet to come, from the Vaishnava view. (FYI, it's Kalki, not Kali, as Kali is a renowned Goddess in Shaktism (another sect within Hinduism, where the Supreme is female).

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Follow your heart.

I feel I'm called to be Hindu, but that the Gods may want for me to be more respectful of the Baha'i faith in at least some, if not many, context. Whenever I pray to Vishnu, I feel it from head to toe, and that's what I like in religion. If you Baha'is ever decide to pray for me, my request is for the mirth of Krishna, and healing power of God.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

No! In my personal sampradaya, there is no such thing as avatara as a concept, so no from that POV, and also no from the general Hindu concept. Kalki has yet to come, from the Vaishnava view. (FYI, it's Kalki, not Kali, as Kali is a renowned Goddess in Shaktism (another sect within Hinduism, where the Supreme is female).

Kali (demon) - Wikipedia

 

[Vinayaka]

Kali (demon) - Wikipedia

Thanks ... first I've heard of that one, and I've been a Hindu for 45 years.

Kali - Wikipedia

Aup is much wiser than me.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Question for Hindus and Baha'is:

I'm going to try to be open minded. Could Subh-i-Azal be an incarnation of Kali IF Bahaullah was the tenth avatar (a claim in the Baha'i faith)?

I'm trying to look at all sides.

Subh-i-Azal feuded with Bahaullah and allegedly tried to poison him.

Wonderful insight and observation! I agree he fits the description very much.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I feel I'm called to be Hindu, but that the Gods may want for me to be more respectful of the Baha'i faith in at least some, if not many, context. Whenever I pray to Vishnu, I feel it from head to toe, and that's what I like in religion. If you Baha'is ever decide to pray for me, my request is for the mirth of Krishna, and healing power of God.

There’s a Hindu prayer I’ve been looking for for about 40 years. I first heard it in the Baha’i House of Worship. The gist of it was “ let my life not be cut off until the song of my life has been sung”. Anybody?

There are some healing prayers you may like here from Baha’u’llah.


5 Beautiful Prayers for Healing

 

[Aupmanyav]

Kali (demon) - Wikipedia

Yeah, in Hinduism the current age is known as Kaliyuga and the cause of all troubles is suosed to be this demon, Kali. Since this age is in the scheme of things of God, he is going to rule for the next 425,00 years. That is also the reason King Pariksit did not kill him and allowed him five places to reside: where there is gambling, alcohol consumption, prostitution, animal slaughter and gold. That is how the story goes.

Aup is much wiser than me.

Unfortunately, I am not. I am too involved in worldly affairs (i.e., Vyavaharika). I do not have your kind of detachment.

Wonderful insight and observation! I agree he fits the description very much.

Well, you had a whole army of Kalis whom Bahais excommunicated, so much so that Shoghi Effendi could not find even one to pass on the baton.

There are some healing prayers you may like here from Baha’u’llah.

Whom to pray to if you yourself are that (Tat twam asi - You are That). Realize your own self.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Part of your confusion might be from thinking that there is only one “Baha’i Faith.”

What do you mean?

@KAT-KAT - In the Baha'i Faith every person has a free will to understand what the Message from God says.

The Boundary is the Law and Covenant to which can not be crossed. Thus this keeps the Baha'i Faith undivided.

This is where independent investigation is a must, it is up to us to decide what God has offered and live our lives within that understanding.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

'Independent investigation', I discovered some time back is a misnomer, a Baha'ispeak irony. It's independent investigation, just so long as it's from a Baha'i source, or one favorable to Baha'i. In other words, heavy on the confirmation bias theme.

Fortunately we have the internet, and lots of other views, or sources, from which to do actual independent investigation. As wise medical practitioners say, "Get a second opinion."

 

[Dawnofhope]

Independent investigation is about being freed from all preconceived ideas, prejudices and biases. There is nothing in the Baha'i writings that even remotely suggests Baha'is should use only 'Baha'i' sources.