Baha'i groups discuss the Covenant of Baha'u'llah

[danieldemol]

I note only 19 have been named which is the 18 Letters of the Living and the Bab. With 5 still to be named.

Ah sorry, missed that. Although it's odd that the Bab seems to be counted as one of the 12 imams of the previous revelation and as one of the 19 of the next cycle if I haven't missed anything.

I have see other Web sites speculating on who they may be, but my guess is the Universal House of Justice will determine that in the future.

Regards Tony

Well I suppose they have another approx 840 years to figure out who the remaining 5 are unless universal peace is established before that time in my view.

 

[bahamut19]

There are ample passages from Baha'u'llah as to Abdul'baha.

Note the bold, this knowledge Abdul'baha said is from Baha'u'llah as the appointed Interpreter of the Message of Baha’u’llah.

“O Thou Who art the apple of Mine eye!” Bahá’u’lláh, in His own handwriting, thus addresses ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, “My glory, the ocean of My loving-kindness, the sun of My bounty, the heaven of My mercy rest upon Thee. We pray God to illumine the world through Thy knowledge and wisdom, to ordain for Thee that which will gladden Thine heart and impart consolation to Thine eyes.” “The glory of God rest upon Thee,” He writes in another Tablet, “and upon whosoever serveth Thee and circleth around Thee. Woe, great woe, betide him that opposeth and injureth Thee. Well is it with him that sweareth fealty to Thee; the fire of hell torment him who is Thine enemy.” “We have made Thee a shelter for all mankind,” He, in yet another Tablet, affirms, “a shield unto all who are in heaven and on earth, a stronghold for whosoever hath believed in God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. God grant that through Thee He may protect them, may enrich and sustain them, that He may inspire Thee with that which shall be a wellspring of wealth unto all created things, an ocean of bounty unto all men, and the dayspring of mercy unto all peoples.”

Baha'u'llah allowed Abdul'baha to offer replies on behalf of Baha'u'llah.

All this is available and is self explanatory, there is no negating the Station of Abdul'baha, a Station that was given in Baha'u'llah in His own handwriting and was a Sealed Testament to all that choose the name Baha'i.

To negate that station, is to negate the name Baha'i.

Regards Tony

Besides a Ruhi book, do you know where these writings actually come from?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

GPT4 says lands...

A Compilation of Baha’u’llah’s Writings - Kitab-i-Aqdas (The Holy Book)

Combine it with the Aqdas which also says established in every city.

The interpretation and implementation of Aqdas was with Abdulbaha and Shoghi Effendi.
One of the main things that Baha'u'llah taught in Iqan, is, only the chosen Ones of God can know interpretation of the Holy Books without error.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Besides a Ruhi book, do you know where these writings actually come from?

I can offer when I became a Baha'i, it was in Wanneroo Western Australia and at that time there was an active Covernant Breaker living in the area. So I had the bounty of being immersed in the Covernant from day 1 of being a Baha'i.

I immersed myself in the Baha'i Writings when I became a Baha'i back in 1984 and have been reading them ever since, well before Rhui started quoting the same Baha'i Writings.

People really need to read the dawnbreakers to understand the history of Covernant Breaking and why Baha'u'llah gave such a firm and valuable Covernant. What better way to test the power of the Covenant, than with the Messengers own Family, members that could have chosen eternal spiritual glory, found only in submission.

Regards Tony

 

[bahamut19]

I can offer when I became a Baha'i, it was in Wanneroo Western Australia and at that time there was an active Covernant Breaker living in the area. So I had the bounty of being immersed in the Covernant from day 1 of being a Baha'i.

I immersed myself in the Baha'i Writings when I became a Baha'i back in 1984 and have been reading them ever since, well before Rhui started quoting the same Baha'i Writings.

People really need to read the dawnbreakers to understand the history of Covernant Breaking and why Baha'u'llah gave such a firm and valuable Covernant. What better way to test the power of the Covenant, than with the Messengers own Family, members that could have chosen eternal spiritual glory, found only in submission.

Regards Tony

That doesn't actually answer the question.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That doesn't actually answer the question.

This will.

Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

www.bahai.org

Regards Tony

 

[bahamut19]

There is no Baha'i Faith but Baha'i.

The act of putting Unitarian in front of the name Baha'i, or even after the name Baha'i already indicates it is not Baha'i under the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah.

It fails Prophecy to do so.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one".

NOT TWO, NOT 3 NOT MULTIPLE Baha'i Faiths, One Name under Baha'u'llah, "The Glory of God".

Regards Tony

You are saying the Baha'i Faith is the Lord? That makes no sense.

I can offer when I became a Baha'i, it was in Wanneroo Western Australia and at that time there was an active Covernant Breaker living in the area. So I had the bounty of being immersed in the Covernant from day 1 of being a Baha'i.

I immersed myself in the Baha'i Writings when I became a Baha'i back in 1984 and have been reading them ever since, well before Rhui started quoting the same Baha'i Writings.

People really need to read the dawnbreakers to understand the history of Covernant Breaking and why Baha'u'llah gave such a firm and valuable Covernant. What better way to test the power of the Covenant, than with the Messengers own Family, members that could have chosen eternal spiritual glory, found only in submission.

Regards Tony

Why do you always say "Covernant?" It's Covenant.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is not what Baha'u'llah said. He said:

Expect not that they who violate the ordinances of God will be trustworthy or sincere in the faith they profess. Avoid them, and preserve strict guard over thyself, lest their devices and mischief hurt thee. Turn away from them, and fix thy gaze upon God, thy Lord, the All-Glorious, the Most Bountiful. He that giveth up himself wholly to God, God shall, assuredly, be with him; and he that placeth his complete trust in God, God shall, verily, protect him from whatsoever may harm him, and shield him from the wickedness of every evil plotter.

i placeth no trust in your all glorious and most bountiful god, since i am an atheist and there are many more like me. or the buddhists also who do not do that. do you think we are not trustworthy? are we evil plotters?
perhaps your god and messenger do/did not know that people like us exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

i placeth no trust in your all glorious and most bountiful god, since i am an atheist and there are many more like me. or the buddhists also who do not do that. do you think we are not trustworthy? are we evil plotters?
perhaps your god and messenger do/did not know that people like us exist.

No, I don't think people like you are untrustworthy or that you are evil plotters.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I note only 19 have been named which is the 18 Letters of the Living and the Bab. With 5 still to be named.

oh, no hurry. your universal house of justice can take its time to add the five as abbas and shoghi did with krishna and buddha.
perhaps laozi, confucious, joseph smith, mirza ghulam ahmad, l. ron hubbard, agha khan, etc. they were also very inspired.

 

[Honorable_Skeptic]

There is no Baha'i Faith but Baha'i.

The act of putting Unitarian in front of the name Baha'i, or even after the name Baha'i already indicates it is not Baha'i under the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah.

It fails Prophecy to do so.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one".

NOT TWO, NOT 3 NOT MULTIPLE Baha'i Faiths, One Name under Baha'u'llah, "The Glory of God".

Regards Tony

Let me rephrase that in Christian terms.

{{{There is no Christianity but that of the Holy Catholic Church descended from the original one led by Peter.

The act of separating from the Holy Catholic Church, as Protestants and Eastern Orthodox groups have done, violates the teachings of Christ himself.

It fails Prophecy to do so.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one".

NOT TWO, NOT 3 NOT MULTIPLE Baha'i Faiths, One Name under Baha'u'llah, "The Glory of God".}}}

That is a false argument, ignoring that all Christians, as well as all Jews, Muslims, and BAHA'IS.....WORSHIP THE SAME GOD!

And yet that false claim was used for over 1000 years by Catholic authorities to persecute, torture, and KILL dissenting people who were also believers in the same God and the same Lord and Savior.

You Haifan Baha'is are just as arrogant as those Catholic Popes and Bishops were 1000 years ago. And you deserve the same scorn. I spit on your false and bigoted Covenant and I am eager to see it brought to ruin forever.

 

[Honorable_Skeptic]

The so-called Covenant of the Baha'i Faith doesn't exist and has been extinct since at least 1957, when the so-called Guardian Shoghi Effendi died, and possibly since 1937, when Mirza Muhammad-Ali died.

The Fatal Flaw in Baha’i Authority

This is the direct sequel to my first blog entry on the Baha’i faith: The basic problem of authority in the Baha’i Faith, with its false claim that those authorities are infallible…

dalehusband.com

Since it is obvious that Shoghi Effendi himself failed completely to follow the terms of Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament and failed to even obey Baha'u'llah himself, it will forever be useless to talk of any legitimate leadership of Baha'is, no matter what mental gymnastics you quote from authors like Adib Taherzadeh to justify the illogical. Your Faith has FAILED, period. That's why I left the Baha'i Faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I spit on your false and bigoted Covenant and I am eager to see it brought to ruin forever.

That is the proof the Baha'i are on the right path.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The so-called Covenant of the Baha'i Faith doesn't exist and has been extinct since at least 1957, when the so-called Guardian Shoghi Effendi died, and possibly since 1937, when Mirza Muhammad-Ali died.

That just indicates an ignorance of the given Covernant.

Sounds like you did a good thing when you left the faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, I don't think people like you are untrustworthy or that you are evil plotters.

you don't, but your god and messenger think so. be careful,you are breaking the covenant. and there are consequences.

 

[Trailblazer]

you don't, but your god and messenger think so.

Not necessarily.

be careful,you are breaking the covenant. and there are consequences.

I'm not a bit worried.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Let me rephrase that in Christian terms.

{{{There is no Christianity but that of the Holy Catholic Church descended from the original one led by Peter.

The act of separating from the Holy Catholic Church, as Protestants and Eastern Orthodox groups have done, violates the teachings of Christ himself.

It fails Prophecy to do so.

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one".

NOT TWO, NOT 3 NOT MULTIPLE Baha'i Faiths, One Name under Baha'u'llah, "The Glory of God".}}}

That is a false argument, ignoring that all Christians, as well as all Jews, Muslims, and BAHA'IS.....WORSHIP THE SAME GOD!

Yes that is correct, all past faiths have suffered the breaking of the Covenant given of God and it was upon Peter that Jesus Christ would build the Church.

With Muhammad, the rightful succession was through Imam Ali, just as the Bible predicted, that Covenant was broken on Muhammad's death bed.

There is One God and all the Names are One.

Thus it is a valid argument. The bounty in this age is that it is a signed and sealed Covenant from God's Messenger. In this age their is no doubt as to succession and thus the Oneness of Humanity has found the strongest foundation for its unity.

It is 100 years since the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah, through Abdul'baha was passed on to Shoghi Effendi and in 1957 when Shoghi Effendi passed away, the Covenant went to The Universal House of Justice, the body that Shoghi Effendi was preparing the Baha'i world for.

Interestingly, on this 100th anniversary, the Universal House of Justice gave a 27 page letter to the Baha'i World and one can guess the theme of that letter, yes, the power and supremacy of the Covenant given by Baha'u'llah, it mentions the attempts at each stage of transition that people have made to break that Covenant and their 100% futile endeavours to effect a division in the Baha'i Faith, only attracting a handful of misguided souls.

May peace be with you, all the best, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You are saying the Baha'i Faith is the Lord? That makes no sense.

It is saying a follower of Baha’u’llah becomes a Baha'i, if one then rejects the Covernant of Baha'u'llah, as there is only one Baha'i Faith, they can withdraw from the faith, or be sanctioned, but they are not able to start a new Baha'i Faith.

The key thought here is, that there is a 2nd duty placed upon all Baha'i and that is to implement all the counsels, then one has a right to the name Baha'i.

It could very well be that many of us have no right to that name, even when we use it.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

but they are not able to start a new Baha'i Faith.

But some people have done just that, even if the main body of Baha'is do not recognize these groups as the Baha'i Faith.
The same thing happened in Christianity.

 

[Truthseeker]

What's the Tablet called?

Sorry this took so long.

In another tablet revealed in response to that controversy, Bahá’u’lláh rejects Muḥammad-‘Alí's claim to revelation, states that he "is but one of My servants... Should he for a moment pass out from under the shadow of the Cause, he surely shall be brought to naught," and mentions the extraordinary station of one of His sons.[^59] Later, in His Book of the Covenant, He would state that this high station belongs to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, that Muḥammad-‘Alí is subordinate to him, and that all must turn toward ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.[^60] [59]: Bahá’u’lláh's tablet can be found in Ishraq Khavari, Ma'idiy-i-Asmani 1:56-68. See also Ma'idiy-i-Asmani 4:361, and Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, 251. [60]: See Bahá’u’lláh, Tablets, 221.
Nader Saiedi, "Logos and Civilization"

Ishraq Khavari is the name of an Iranian Baha'i scholar.

So the answer is that this tablet can be found in Ishraq Khavari, Ma'idiy-i-Asmani 1:56-68. See also Ma'idiy-i-Asmani 4:361.