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Baha'i logical afterlife

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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
JoshuaTree said:
Revelation 14:10
New International Version

10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
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Let's say someone is trapped in a burning building and is not able to get out. They would be tormented with burning, but only until they die, not forever. The wages of sin is death by burning. Not eternal torture.
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
lostwanderingsoul said:
Let's say someone is trapped in a burning building and is not able to get out. They would be tormented with burning, but only until they die, not forever. The wages of sin is death by burning. Not eternal torture.
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Revelation 14:11
New International Version

11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
 
JoshuaTree

JoshuaTree

Flowers are red?
Joe W said:
I am not sure why you think forcing someone to pay homage to you to avoid death is morally superior to forcing someone to pay homage to you to avoid torture. It's not like saying, It's not torture, it's death makes it something other than extortion.
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Seems to me God isn't subject to moral delimas because we are all figments of God's imagination.
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
Someone with no religion might have trouble understanding morality. God says there is a way that seems right to men but leads to destruction.
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Someone with no religion might. But clearly someone with a religion does. Note that between the two of us I am not the one trying to pass the extortion of worship and obedience with threats of torture or death as laudable and moral behavior. Read back thru your posts. That is all you.
 
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Joe W said:
Someone with no religion might. But clearly someone with a religion does. Note that between the two of us I am not the one trying to pass the extortion of worship and obedience with threats of torture or death as laudable and moral behavior. Read back thru your posts. That is all you.
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Again, you have it wrong. I do not extort anyone or anything. I offer what God says. And again, that is something someone with no religion may have trouble understanding.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Meandflower said:
I like baha'i's belief in afterlife. That they do not scare people with eternal concious torment in hell. To scare people with eternal hell is just cruel. God should not be worshiped out of fear. The afterlife they believe in shows that God is loving, and at the same time just. The afterlife they believe in is also logical.

Baha’is speak of Heaven as nearness to God and Hell as remoteness from God. Heaven represents the joy experienced by a soul that is spiritually close to God, while the torments of “hell” symbolize the suffering a soul endures when it is spiritually far from its Creator. Baha’is believe such spiritual “proximity to” or “distance from” God is determined by a person’s love for the Creator and the degree to which he sincerely tries in his life to reflect the true Teachings revealed by God's prophets.

In baha'i teachings salvation is a process. The process of acquiring spiritual virtues. The main aim of life should be to perfect these spiritual attributes; the more these are perfected, the closer humans become to God. And it is this closeness to God that is the heaven or paradise referred to in the scriptures of all religions.
Failing to develop these virtues means humans separating themselves from God, and that is hell. Thus heaven and hell are not distinct places; they are spiritual conditions both in this world and in the after-life.

What do you think about this matter?
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I believe it is too bad that it is only wishful thinking instead of what actually occurs.
 
S

Satansdaughter@egg

New Member
Meandflower said:
I like baha'i's belief in afterlife. That they do not scare people with eternal concious torment in hell. To scare people with eternal hell is just cruel. God should not be worshiped out of fear. The afterlife they believe in shows that God is loving, and at the same time just. The afterlife they believe in is also logical.

Baha’is speak of Heaven as nearness to God and Hell as remoteness from God. Heaven represents the joy experienced by a soul that is spiritually close to God, while the torments of “hell” symbolize the suffering a soul endures when it is spiritually far from its Creator. Baha’is believe such spiritual “proximity to” or “distance from” God is determined by a person’s love for the Creator and the degree to which he sincerely tries in his life to reflect the true Teachings revealed by God's prophets.

In baha'i teachings salvation is a process. The process of acquiring spiritual virtues. The main aim of life should be to perfect these spiritual attributes; the more these are perfected, the closer humans become to God. And it is this closeness to God that is the heaven or paradise referred to in the scriptures of all religions.
Failing to develop these virtues means humans separating themselves from God, and that is hell. Thus heaven and hell are not distinct places; they are spiritual conditions both in this world and in the after-life.

What do you think about this matter?
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Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Joe W said:
Is all that you mean by "logical" is that it is an internally consistent story? Like a good fantasy novel is logical?
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I believe most fantasy novels have magic which isn't logical. Of course that doesn't mean that magic isn't real though.
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
Again, you have it wrong. I do not extort anyone or anything. I offer what God says.
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That would be the aforementioned attempt to pass the extortion of worship and obedience with threats of torture or death as laudable and moral behavior.
lostwanderingsoul said:
And again, that is something someone with no religion may have trouble understanding.
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You have had adequate time to present a defense where you demonstrate that setting up a system of torture or death, and then making people obey so that you can save them from the perils that you created in the first place is not low and immoral. You are trying to hang on by claiming that I don't understand, but you cannot even demonstrate that you have any understanding, @lostwanderingsoul.
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe most fantasy novels have magic which isn't logical.
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'Logically' just means that the claims and events do not violate identity/non-contradiction/excluded middle, and are consistent with the accepted premises. When we read a novel or watch a movie, we temporarily accept the premises of the story for that limited scope. One of the things that makes a good story is that it does not break with its premises or the internal rules that the story itself has established. Such stories are internally, logically consistent, but not true.

I agree that most novels with magical elements tend to break their own rules and thus break the story.

Muffled said:
Of course that doesn't mean that magic isn't real though.
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True. But such a conclusion is useless to someone who is trying to establish that magic is real. They would have to provide positive evidence for their conclusion.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Meandflower said:
And what is the truth about afterlife?
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You will get a different answer depending upon what religion one ascribes to.
Even within the same religion, there are many truths, but at the end of the day, the afterlife is a mystery of God.

“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.

As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346
 
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