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Bahai's and the Bible. Errant or Inerrant. Holistic or cherry picking?

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
So I see one has to ask themselves, when Muhammad came, was He a "Spirit of Truth"? Also what about the Bab?

By offering the title exclusively, would it not be fair and reasonable to say that Christianity could reject Muhammad and the Bab, as they were not that 'Spirit of Truth'. Also would it not support the stance of the Jew, as Jesus, Muhammad and the Bab are not the Messiah.

Also did not Muhammad and the Bab as the 'Spirit of Truth', guide us unto all truth. Where is it saying we will except 'All Truth'?

Abdul'Baha says;

"..In the Gospels it is written that the Christ said: "I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now! But when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you unto all knowledge." Christ is alluding to a person, because he says, "When he is come, he will not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak." This means by the power of innate knowledge.

The Spirit of Truth is the power of Innate knowledge, does that not describe every Message from God?

@firedragon

Abdul'baha also ties together the Spirit of Truth and Spirit of God in the same human frame.

"..For instance, in reference to the Promised One that must come after Christ, it is said in John 16:12: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.”

Now consider carefully that the words “for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak” clearly imply that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has a soul, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak. Likewise Christ is called the "Spirit of God”, in the same way that we speak of the light and yet mean both the light and the lamp."


I have come to the terms that no matter how much I know, I see I am yet to know anything and if we start to make exclusive statements, I see we have missed the point of Oneness. Oneness to me omits exclusion. The Message of Baha'u'llah, to me, is the Culmination of all what the 'Spirit of Truth' has offered, thus in this revelation we get a glimpse of the full potential of all the Messengers.

I will leave it there Susan, stay well, stay happy, Love from my wife and I to you and yours.

Regards Tony

Bahai scriptures gives an analogy.

A Manifestation of God, or the eternal Truth, is like rise of the Sun. There is only one Sun. Not two or three or more Suns.
But for the Sun to rise tomorrow, the sun must set or leave today. Until the spirit of Truth does not leave today, it cannot come tomorrow. It is the same Spirit:


So, while Jesus was the Spirit of Truth, but He prophesied that the Spirit of Truth shall come.


"For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. " Baha'u'llah



It is like, the Sun says, I leave, so, the Sun comes tomorrow. We cannot have two suns in One single Day.

This is what Bahaullah wrote in the Iqan:


"Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: “I go away and come again unto you.” Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character. Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions
made by the Creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting Beauty should have, at sundry times, called Himself by different names and titles."






A clarification: Jesus, Bahaullah or Moses, all were separate and different individuals, each having their own Soul. But as these were like a Mirror, reflecting the same God, all shown the same image, or image of God.

It is like same Sun appear in many mirrors. So, although the Mirrors are different from each other, yet they reflect the same image. Likewise God who is like the sun, is manifested in Many mirrors. Baha'u'llah said:

"These sanctified Mirrors, these Daysprings of ancient glory are one and all the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose. From Him proceed their knowledge and power; from Him is derived their sovereignty. The beauty of their countenance is but a reflection of His image, and their revelation a sign of His deathless glory. They are the Treasuries of divine knowledge, and the Repositories of celestial wisdom. Through them is transmitted a grace that is infinite, and by them is revealed the light that can never fade. Even as He hath said: “There is no distinction whatsoever between Thee and them; except that they are Thy servants, and are created of Thee.” This is the significance of the tradition: “I am He, Himself, and He is I, myself.”
Baha'u'llah, Book of Iqan.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The resurrection of Jesus supports that there is a bodily resurrection. Jesus resurrected into both a physical and a spiritual body. The glorified body of Jesus appeared in the room to his disciples. Jesus' Bodily Resurrection Teaches Immortality For the Whole Man in Both Body and Soul
"Neither Jesus nor Paul were guilty of preaching a spiritual resurrection of man. They taught immortality for the whole man and without exception."

That is absolutely false. Jesus never preached a physical resurrection of bodies --- never.
Paul never preached a physical resurrection of bodies either, he preached a resurrection in a spiritual body.

All souls go to heaven and take on a spiritual body, which is the same thing as what Paul says in 1st Cor:
We are raised in a spiritual body because only spiritual bodies can enter heaven.

1st Corinthians 15

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


The verses above clearly state that there are two kinds of bodies, a natural body and a spiritual body; we are sown in a natural body and we are raised in a spiritual body.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Bahai scriptures gives an analogy.

A Manifestation of God, or the eternal Truth, is like rise of the Sun. There is only one Sun. Not two or three or more Suns.
But for the Sun to rise tomorrow, the sun must set or leave today. Until the spirit of Truth does not leave today, it cannot come tomorrow. It is the same Spirit:


So, while Jesus was the Spirit of Truth, but He prophesied that the Spirit of Truth shall come.


"For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. " Baha'u'llah



It is like, the Sun says, I leave, so, the Sun comes tomorrow. We cannot have two suns in One single Day.

This is what Bahaullah wrote in the Iqan:


"Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: “I go away and come again unto you.” Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character. Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions
made by the Creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting Beauty should have, at sundry times, called Himself by different names and titles."

I see that is why the advice has been offered, that if we argue about it, then we are both wrong.

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
"Neither Jesus nor Paul were guilty of preaching a spiritual resurrection of man. They taught immortality for the whole man and without exception."

That is absolutely false. Jesus never preached a physical resurrection of bodies --- never.
Paul never preached a physical resurrection of bodies either, he preached a resurrection in a spiritual body.

All souls go to heaven and take on a spiritual body, which is the same thing as what Paul says in 1st Cor:
We are raised in a spiritual body because only spiritual bodies can enter heaven.

1st Corinthians 15

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


The verses above clearly state that there are two kinds of bodies, a natural body and a spiritual body; we are sown in a natural body and we are raised in a spiritual body.

A glorified body is also physical? Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:35-58 - New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body
35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. 39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Maybe we can use logic. Logically, the result may be the same :)

It is Logical

Regards Tony

The Bible is also logical.

Logic Must Prove the King James Bible

I'm not attacking the Catholic church tonight. I'm not a Catholic. Maybe you noticed the sign out in front of our church that says, "First Baptist." I never think I'm being unkind if I have the same thing on the inside that we have on the outside. I want you to listen carefully. I'm going to state some facts about the Catholic church. They are facts; they are not railing accusations. They are facts, and any Catholic who is honest will tell you that what I'm going to say is true about the Catholic church. It is not a matter of my making false accusations; it's a matter of record.

I am also going to say some things about the Charismatics tonight. I'm more Catholic than I am Charismatic. I've got more respect for the Pope than I do the P.T.L. Club, and I mean that. However, my respect for the Pope is not really soaring! Don't get mad now. I want to help you. I'm simply saying that I'm going to give you some facts. I'm going to give some facts about the Charismatics, and if a Charismatic is honest, he will agree with the facts I'm going to give. There will be no accusations, no gossip and no slander; I will just give facts that any Charismatic would give.

Also, I'm going to say some things tonight about Protestantism. In fact, I may not miss anybody tonight. Everything I say will be factual. It will be the kind of thing with which even the people about whom I speak will agree. So I want you to listen. With the battle raging as it is about the King James Bible, I think that any pastor ought to alert his people.

When I was a boy, from the time I remember-- I remember back when I was two and three years of age-- until I went into the paratroopers in World War II when I was 18, my mother would read to me for 30 minutes every night from the Bible. Then she would hold it up and say, "This is the Word of God!" She did not say, The manuscripts from which we got this are the Word of God." My mom didn't even know what a manuscript was. She just knew she had a Book that was the Word of God. That's all she knew. So, she said, "This is the Word of God." I would look at it, and I would have to say three times, "Mama, the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is the Word of God."

I have Mama's Bible-- the same one she read-- in my office. I've had it there for years. I don't know how old it is, but I suspect it is 55 or 60 years old. It is the same Bible she used to hold up. I was thumbing through it the other day. On the inside, it says on the title page, "King James Bible." That's what it says. You know it worked. It's amazing how well Mama did before she found out that it wasn't the Word of God.

I've been going to Baptist churches for 51 years. Every pastor I've ever had preached from the King James Bible. He always said to the crowd, "Open your Bibles and let's hear what the Lord says." These pastors were not unfortunate enough to have sat at the feet of those with lower education-- which calls itself "higher education."

It is amazing how well this nation did when we didn't know how ignorant we were. (Are you listening?) This is my fifth pastorate. I've seen miracles in my pastorates. I've preached over 41,000 times, and I've never yet preached a sermon that wasn't preached from the King James Bible. I really don't know what I've missed. To be quite frank with you, I've seen fellows who preach from other Bibles, and I somehow get the idea THEY are missing something. Dr. Evans, I've never seen a fellow really whoop it up about any other Bible. I've never heard a fellow say, "Blessed be God, let's look in the Book. Let's look in the Douay Version."

Did you ever go to mass and have the priest get up and say, Hallelujah for the Word of God!" Don't get mad at me! I'm telling the truth. If you don't believe it, go next Sunday and see. He will usually use that prayer book and not a Bible.

Follow me. I've taught you about the Textus Receptus, Westcott and Hort, those manuscripts from which came the Douay Version that the Catholics use and the American Standard Version, which is highly overrated. The Westcott and Hort manuscripts came from the Vatican manuscripts that were hidden in the Vatican for years-- from whence came the Catholic Bible.

The Textus Receptus manuscripts are those from which we have gotten the King James, and they have been the evangelistic manuscripts, if you please. I won't go into that. I'm a Textus Receptus man. I haven't got a bit of patience with Westcott and Hort. Not a bit! In fact, I really have a hard time not being bitter against my Greek professors in college who taught me from Westcott and Hort Greek manuscripts. It upsets me greatly.

This is the message. The question at hand is this: Where is the final authority for church building and for Christian living? There are four different final authorities in American Christendom. I'm not talking about Mormonism and those who have other books. I'm talking about Christendom. There are four basic final authorities.

1. SOME VIEW THE CHURCH AS THE FINAL AUTHORITY. This is fact. Any honest Catholic priest will tell you that the Catholic position on the final authority is that the church has final authority. If you want to go a little farther than that, if the pope speaks ex cathedra, he is the final authority. Ask any Catholic or read any Catholic doctrine, and both will tell you that. I'm not trying to be critical. I'm telling you the truth. If a Catholic priest were standing here, he'd tell you the same thing.

Our Catholic friends believe that the church is the final authority. If the pope speaks ex cathedra, that's God speaking. I'm not being critical; I'm being factual. There is a second final authority.

2. SOME VIEW EXPERIENCE AS THE FINAL AUTHORITY. In other words, "It happened to me, so it's true. I was there when it happened, and I ought to know. I had an experience. I saw Jesus. I saw a vision. I have a word of knowledge." This is the charismatic position. Ask them. They will say, "I have a message from God, so this is God talking. God gave me a message." (The foolish thing about that is, if that is true, you had better start writing more Bible.)

When this happens, people believe the final authority comes from experience. God has supposedly given someone a message. Someone talks in tongues, and somebody else interprets what God said. However, the truth is, all that God has ever said to man is right here in this Book. This is it. This is God's complete revelation to man!

By the way, that is the basis of the whole thing: What is the final authority? There has to be some place, ladies and gentlemen, where we can say, "This is it, and what this says is the final word." So, our Catholic friends say the church is the final authority. Our charismatic friends go beyond the Bible and say human experience is the final authority.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
"There is no question about the teachings of the New Testament in regard to the doctrine of the immortality of the whole man. When Christ spoke of His own resurrection, He always meant the resurrection of His body. And whenever He spoke of His return to judge the world and to raise the dead, he always meant the resurrection of the dead bodies of men. He could refer to no other resurrection than to the bodily resurrection of men, because there is no other resurrection possible. What other resurrection could Christ have meant except the bodily resurrection when He says, “All that are in the graves shall hear his voice?” (John 5:28) A spiritual resurrection, which is a concept of modern religious liberalism, is a misnomer. Neither Jesus nor Paul were guilty of preaching a spiritual resurrection of man. They taught immortality for the whole man and without exception."

That is absolutely false. “All that are in the graves shall hear his voice?” (John 5:28) refers to being spiritually dead, in the grave of spiritual ignorance. Below is the truth about the afterlife and the meaning of resurrection.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Just because those in the graves hear the voice of God and that refers to spiritual resurrection and not physical resurrection, it doesn't mean that it excludes a physical resurrection. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The saved will resurrect in a different body, but they will still resurrect with their same soul, spirit, and body. Can We Sin After Receiving Our Glorified Body?

Can We Sin After Receiving Our Glorified Body?

By David J. Stewart | December 2017

I received this good Bible question today from a web visitor...

QUESTION: Can we sin after receiving a glorified body at the rapture? Can a glorified Christian sin?

ANSWER: No, it will not be possible to sin in our glorified body. Romans 6:23 says that “the wages of sin is death.” Thus, we must die physically one day. Jesus paid for our sins, so that we don't have to die the second death in the Lake of Fire forever (Revelation 20:6). I love the saying that goes: “If we're born once, we die twice; but if we're born twice, we die once.” That is, if we are born-again, spiritually, which is the second birth, then we only die the physical death, but not the second death.

Spiritual death and second death are not the same thing. All humans are born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-2). The “second death” is spending all eternity in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). So we are all spiritually dead until we get saved. Once saved, we are spiritually alive forever, and cannot lose God's salvation, which is through faith alone in Jesus Christ (Philippians 3:9).

At the Rapture, we will receive a glorified body like unto the Lord's glorified body (Philippians 3:21; 1st Corinthians 15:52-57). We will be as the angels without reproductive organs. The idea that angels mated with human women in Noah's time is heresy. Angels cannot mate with humans. It is impossible. Although angels always appeared in masculine form, the Bible is clear that they do not marry nor reproduce. The human "flesh" is one of the believer's three enemies: The Devil, the world and the flesh. This is what someone has called “the Devil's 3-string banjo of damnation.” Of these three enemies, I believe the flesh is the greatest threat. 1st Corinthians 15:52-27 teaches that at the Rapture, mortality shall put on immortality. If we could sin in our resurrected body, then we would have to die again.

The “sting” of death is mentioned in this Scripture passage. A bee can only sting a person one time, because afterward the bee dies. Death can only sting a person one time. But our dear precious Lord Jesus Christ took the sting out of death, in that every believer has (presently) eternal life, so we don't really die, we simply leave the body (“tabernacle,” 2nd Corinthians 5:1-10). Death for the believer is a graduation of sorts, from this earthly life to Heaven. I believe there will be no break in conscience at death. In Luke 16:19-31, the unsaved rich man went straight to Hell to be tormented in fire; but saved Lazarus was escorted by angels to Paradise. I believe when a believer dies, we will be escorted by angels to Heaven. So death for the believer is not a horrifying ordeal, because of the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus took the “sting” out of death, so that the believer has no cause to worry or fear.

But death for the unbeliever is a horrifying experience, where they go directly to Hell, and realize that it is too late to repent, and will spend all eternity, without time, suffering in screaming agony, tormented in scorching fire, where there is weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. And worst of all will be the knowledge that one could have had eternal bliss, peace, joy and comfort simply for the taking, for free, if they had only obeyed the Gospel by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried and bodily raised up the third day. Anyone who places their confidence (trust) in these facts for the forgiveness of sins is saved, and has eternal life.

1st John 3:2, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” One day we will be just like Jesus, perfect and immortal, by His grace. I long for the glorious appearing of my great God and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

I hope this answers your question. I like to give more detailed answers, for your edification my friend.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Bahai scriptures gives an analogy.

A Manifestation of God, or the eternal Truth, is like rise of the Sun. There is only one Sun. Not two or three or more Suns.
But for the Sun to rise tomorrow, the sun must set or leave today. Until the spirit of Truth does not leave today, it cannot come tomorrow. It is the same Spirit:

So, while Jesus was the Spirit of Truth, but He prophesied that the Spirit of Truth shall come.

"For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. " Baha'u'llah

It is like, the Sun says, I leave, so, the Sun comes tomorrow. We cannot have two suns in One single Day.

And yet the Bab and Baha'u'llah shone like 2 suns on the same day.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
That is absolutely false. Jesus never preached a physical resurrection of bodies --- never.
Paul never preached a physical resurrection of bodies either, he preached a resurrection in a spiritual body.

But we could ask the question, what is a spiritual body? Is it a spirit body?
Paul said the body is redeemed.
Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
And yet the Bab and Baha'u'llah shone like 2 suns on the same day.
Good point. The mission of Baha'u'llah started 9 years after the declaration of the Bab. Baha'u'llah was like a hidden or unmanifested Sun, until the Bab was martyred. Then after the Bab, the Sun rises again.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Good point. The mission of Baha'u'llah started 9 years after the declaration of the Bab. Baha'u'llah was like a hidden or unmanifested Sun, until the Bab was martyred. Then after the Bab, the Sun rises again.

Nevertheless, 2 at the same time seems to go against your idea even if they were not at the fore at the same time.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Then name the tests of a Prophet and then prove Baha'u'llah did not fulfil them.

That is your challenge, as I know you will not be able to.

Regards Tony




And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22


I think that was a correct answer you were given. But Baha'u'llah fulfilled no prophecies.

Prophecies are not fulfilled by historical events.
They can happen anywhere at any time. They happen as understanding is reached.
They happen by following the words into their positions along with other words.

Like the moon becomes blood, if blood becomes moon.
Like the sun becomes darkness, if darkness becomes sun.



Follow the words and a mountain made of gold appears flowing with wine:


Desert - Wilderness - Mount
Brass - Silver - Gold
Corn - Oil - Wine


Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. Amos 9:13

And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. Isaiah 25:6

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. Isaiah 25:6


The hills melt as silver is melted.

The word of God fulfils its own prophecies.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A glorified body is not physical, it is spiritual. Read on to understand why that is the case.

The following verses are fully congruent with what the Baha’i Writings say about life in this physical world and life in the spiritual world, and the kind of body we will have after the physical body dies and takes on a new form.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body


35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed

(35-37) Paul is using an analogy. The seed is your soul which is housed in a physical body while you live on earth will not grow fully, into a plant, until after you die physically and enter the spiritual world.

(38) After we die and enter the spiritual world, God will give the soul a new body, a body God wants it to have, a body that God considered it worthy of inhabiting.

That is exactly what Baha’u’llah wrote: “The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

That form will be a spiritual body, because physical bodies do not exist in the spiritual world.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

(39) Paul says that there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. He does not explain what happens to animals, birds, or fish after they die physically.

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

(40-41) In these verses Paul is saying that there are bodies in the heavens and bodies on earth, and these bodies are not the same, they are different from each other. I think he is likening the physical body to the moon, and the spiritual body to the sun and stars, because the sun and stars give off their own light and they are brighter than the moon. In the spiritual world, not all souls who inhabit spiritual bodies will be the same. Paul said even the stars differ from each other in their glory, and that is analogous to the human souls who will all differ in their glory, since souls will reflect the spiritual growth that they attained in this world, so the souls who attained more spiritual growth will be more glorious, like a star that is brighter.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

(42) What Paul is saying is that our physical bodies will be buried in the ground when we die, but then our sprit (soul) will be raised and live forever. When we die, our spirit (soul) leaves our body and it passes from one world (the physical world) into another (the spiritual world), and it lives forever in the spiritual world because the soul is immortal (not subject to death like the physical body).

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Death of man is merely his passing of the spirit (soul) from one world into another and that is why in the Bible “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. The physical body will be planted in the ground when we die but our spiritual body will be raised to live forever

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

(43) What Paul is saying here is that the physical body is weak and broken, but the spiritual body will be raised in strength and glory. The physical body is the natural human body that is buried. Paul is differentiating natural bodies from spiritual bodies, saying that they are not the same.

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”[a] But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit.

This is exactly what Abdu’l-Baha was saying in this chapter:

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.
Some Answered Questions, p. 118

The whole chapter can be read here: 29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like[b] the heavenly man.

(46-49) Paul is stating the obvious. First we are born and grow in natural bodies, then when we die we are given spiritual bodies. The soul of Christ came from heaven and then His body was born on earth. Earthy people are people who are attached to the earth whereas heavenly people have their thoughts focused on the spiritual world, even while they are still living on earth. Someday we will all be like the heavenly man, when earthy people no longer have the things of the earth to be attached to.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

(50) This verse is very clear. Our physical bodies cannot enter the Kingdom of God in the heaven, which is a spiritual world. Because our physical bodies will die eventually, they cannot enter the spiritual world, which will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

(51-53) What Paul is saying is that the moment we die, our physical body will be transformed into a spiritual body, and we will live forever in the spiritual world. Our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die (immortal bodies) because otherwise we could not live forever.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[e]”


(54-55) In these verses Paul is saying that physical death is no longer our enemy; it has been swallowed up in victory, so we now have defeated death.

56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(56-57) Paul is saying that sin results in spiritual death, but God has given us a way to overcome sin and spiritual death, by believing in and following Jesus.

58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.

(58) Paul is now closing this chapter by telling us to be strong and never give up because nothing we do for Jesus is ever in vain. That reminded me of these verses.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
A glorified body is not physical, it is spiritual. Read on to understand why that is the case.

The following verses are fully congruent with what the Baha’i Writings say about life in this physical world and life in the spiritual world, and the kind of body we will have after the physical body dies and takes on a new form.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body


35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed

(35-37) Paul is using an analogy. The seed is your soul which is housed in a physical body while you live on earth will not grow fully, into a plant, until after you die physically and enter the spiritual world.

(38) After we die and enter the spiritual world, God will give the soul a new body, a body God wants it to have, a body that God considered it worthy of inhabiting.

That is exactly what Baha’u’llah wrote: “The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157

That form will be a spiritual body, because physical bodies do not exist in the spiritual world.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

(39) Paul says that there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. He does not explain what happens to animals, birds, or fish after they die physically.

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

(40-41) In these verses Paul is saying that there are bodies in the heavens and bodies on earth, and these bodies are not the same, they are different from each other. I think he is likening the physical body to the moon, and the spiritual body to the sun and stars, because the sun and stars give off their own light and they are brighter than the moon. In the spiritual world, not all souls who inhabit spiritual bodies will be the same. Paul said even the stars differ from each other in their glory, and that is analogous to the human souls who will all differ in their glory, since souls will reflect the spiritual growth that they attained in this world, so the souls who attained more spiritual growth will be more glorious, like a star that is brighter.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

(42) What Paul is saying is that our physical bodies will be buried in the ground when we die, but then our sprit (soul) will be raised and live forever. When we die, our spirit (soul) leaves our body and it passes from one world (the physical world) into another (the spiritual world), and it lives forever in the spiritual world because the soul is immortal (not subject to death like the physical body).

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Death of man is merely his passing of the spirit (soul) from one world into another and that is why in the Bible “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. The physical body will be planted in the ground when we die but our spiritual body will be raised to live forever

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

(43) What Paul is saying here is that the physical body is weak and broken, but the spiritual body will be raised in strength and glory. The physical body is the natural human body that is buried. Paul is differentiating natural bodies from spiritual bodies, saying that they are not the same.

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”[a] But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit.

This is exactly what Abdu’l-Baha was saying in this chapter:

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

Answer.—Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.
Some Answered Questions, p. 118

The whole chapter can be read here: 29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like[b] the heavenly man.

(46-49) Paul is stating the obvious. First we are born and grow in natural bodies, then when we die we are given spiritual bodies. The soul of Christ came from heaven and then His body was born on earth. Earthy people are people who are attached to the earth whereas heavenly people have their thoughts focused on the spiritual world, even while they are still living on earth. Someday we will all be like the heavenly man, when earthy people no longer have the things of the earth to be attached to.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

(50) This verse is very clear. Our physical bodies cannot enter the Kingdom of God in the heaven, which is a spiritual world. Because our physical bodies will die eventually, they cannot enter the spiritual world, which will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

(51-53) What Paul is saying is that the moment we die, our physical body will be transformed into a spiritual body, and we will live forever in the spiritual world. Our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die (immortal bodies) because otherwise we could not live forever.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[e]”


(54-55) In these verses Paul is saying that physical death is no longer our enemy; it has been swallowed up in victory, so we now have defeated death.

56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(56-57) Paul is saying that sin results in spiritual death, but God has given us a way to overcome sin and spiritual death, by believing in and following Jesus.

58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless.

(58) Paul is now closing this chapter by telling us to be strong and never give up because nothing we do for Jesus is ever in vain. That reminded me of these verses.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The Apostle Thomas touched the glorified body of Jesus. It wasn't just spiritual. Doubting Thomas - Wikipedia
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22


I think that was a correct answer you were given. But Baha'u'llah fulfilled no prophecies.

That is not correct, Baha’u’llah fulfilled many prophecies.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Just because those in the graves hear the voice of God and that refers to spiritual resurrection and not physical resurrection, it doesn't mean that it excludes a physical resurrection. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The saved will resurrect in a different body, but they will still resurrect with their same soul, spirit, and body. Can We Sin After Receiving Our Glorified Body?
There is no resurrection of dead bodies (physical resurrection). Everyone who dies (which is everyone, since we will all die eventually) will resurrect in a spiritual body, with their same soul.

Those souls who are close to God will will have eternal life.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2Some Answered Questions, p. 223

The other souls who are veiled from God, although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies, will be "as dead"souls.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243
 
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