Bakers Who Refused Lesbian Couple A Wedding Cake WILL Have To Pay $135,000

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, I'm not in a position make prohibitions on marriage, foods, etc.

Not by yourself, but don’t you - and other like-minded people - vote?

Dosen't mean I don't have my views, as I'm sure you and everyone does.

The difference, of course, is that I don’t try to force people who don’t accept my views to live by them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh....there's that loaded emotive language again: homophobic bigotry. Because someone has a different perspective is no indication they are afraid of homosexuals, a bigot, or that they don't treat all people, whatever they're sexual orientation with respect and kindness.

What respect or kindness is there in your position?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, I'm not in a position make prohibitions on marriage, foods, etc. Dosen't mean I don't have my views, as I'm sure you and everyone does.

Do you think that gay people should have the right to marry the one that they love?

 

[InChrist]

You do realize that there is a tie between homophobia and latent homosexuality, don't you? So calling hatred of homosexuals "homophobia" may be quite accurate. Those people that do hate homosexuals and are latent probably have a fear of following their hearts.

No, I'm not aware of such a tie. It may or may not be true, I haven't seen statistical prove of such a connection. Nevertheless, for most people it is irrelevant because most people, especially Christians who are truly dead to self and living for Jesus Christ, do not hate anyone.

 

[InChrist]

What respect or kindness is there in your position?

Plenty. If God has stated in His word that homosexual behavior is wrong or marriage is between male and female then, as the Creator He knows how His creation functions best and this wisdom is given out of LOVE. So the kindness and most respectful approach is to kindly and respectfully agree with God and share His loving truth. And all I'm saying is share....not force, since hearts and minds are not truly changed for the better through force anyway.

 

[InChrist]

Do you think that gay people should have the right to marry the one that they love?

If the law of the land says they do then they have the right to do so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I'm not aware of such a tie. It may or may not be true, I haven't seen statistical prove of such a connection. Nevertheless, for most people it is irrelevant because most people, especially Christians who are truly dead to self and living for Jesus Christ, do not hate anyone.

The proper term to use would have been "evidence". There has been more than one study that supports that claim. Here is one of them:

Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

Of course there have been those that deny those studies. More research needs to be done, but the conclusions do not seem unreasonable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If the law of the land says they do then they have the right to do so.

So then by your standards slavery was fine when it was legal.


When you dodge a question as you just did you indicate that you know that you are wrong. An honest person that firmly held their beliefs would have made their beliefs known. But at least you know that you are wrong. That is progress of a sort.

 

[InChrist]

So then by your standards slavery was fine when it was legal.


When you dodge a question as you just did you indicate that you know that you are wrong. An honest person that firmly held their beliefs would have made their beliefs known. But at least you know that you are wrong. That is progress of a sort.

No, I don't think slavery was fine, just as I don't think it was fine for the Nazis to round up the Jews for concentration camps and extermination. In some cases, laws need to be broken. I would have helped runaway slaves or hidden Jews if in those situations, but I would not disrupt a same-sex marriage ceremony, although I don't agree with it or even think the law is correct.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Next up, Jewish and Muslim restaurants that refuse to serve pork, and Mosques and churches that refuse to do gay weddings. Or the Christian or Muslim convenience store that refuses to sell alcoholic beverages. How far are litigious people willing to push this type of thing. Just get the damn cake somewhere else.

No, karma would be for straight white Christians to be denied service for "sincerely held religious beliefs". (And since Jesus doesn't have a verse anywhere saying not to make gay wedding cakes, and there is no gender in Christ, if the baker isn't going to follow Jesus, why should the courts let him argue "sincerely held religious beliefs"?) If it happened to me, I'd laugh at the joke, and move on with my day after giving them a tip for the pleasure.

The bakery had many opportunities to apologize and do what was right. They refused at every opportunity.

That's another thing this guy with "sincerely held religious beliefs" is ignoring from Jesus: Better settle, or your butt is going to pay every last penny.

My problem is with a few people who are eager and willing to completely ruin anothers life, simply because they believe that to bake a cake for a gay wedding violates their religious belief.

Still waiting on the bible verse. God said to kill gays and Jesus said to accept them. He wants to do neither. If he's not going to sincerely follow his beliefs, why should we?

Christians don't seem to understand that they are working to open the door to anti-Christian discrimination.

EXACTLY. I'll break out the popcorn. It'll be worth the show.

If I went into a shop and someone refused to sell me something because I'm a Christian, maybe I would be hurt, maybe I would feel offended and tell my friends and family about that unpleasant event. But I wouldn't want to drag the owner's reputation through the mud in a public scandal and I certainly wouldn't want to bankrupt them. There are reasonable measures to each situation.

How would you feel if the baker then posted your address online and you got tons of death threats?

They'll no longer have to worry about being butthurt over meanie athletes showing disregard for their flag idolatry and fetishism.

Yeah, silly me, I thought our "sincerely held religious beliefs" called idolatry a sin.

Would you feel the same if someone went to a Jewish bakery and demanded a birthday cake for Hitler, then sued them if they refused?

Are you equating a loving marriage to a genocidal maniac?

Perhaps you wouldn't, but I guarantee a lot of conservative Christians would very well scream persecution and seek vengeance if it were done to them.

Hell, their fake martyrdom whine is precisely that NOW. Just imagine when they make it legal to discriminate them in reality all because they wanted to do it to others. Clearly, "sincerely held religious beliefs" does NOT mean "follow your God/Savior".

The point of freedom is that we aren't forced to do anything.

Ah, but the "sincerely held religious beliefs" DO put a crimp on your supposed "freedom".

People should be able to refuse service for any reason; especially religious. The only limit should be in life threatening situations or something like that. Then I can see forcing service.

Only an idiot thinks more profits will come from keeping customers out.

Even though I would have had no legal problem in taking the job, I refused to do the work for moral reasons.

It's not against the law for you to knowingly assist in a crime?

Racism may have been based on religious beliefs by those who had twisted beliefs or twisted the scriptures

It doesn't twist the scriptures to argue Jesus said not to bake a gay wedding cake?

Crowd funding might help alleviate the financial pain of the court’s decision.

I think gofundme has a policy of not accepting pleas for money after doing something illegal.

The big difference I think would be that Jesus probably wouldn't have turned them away, and while he may not have served them he likely would have offered them a condescending parable about their sins barring them from his father.

Jesus would've poofed up the best cake. He didn't tell the wedding he attended that it sucks they didn't buy enough wine. He magicked up some. Jesus loves him some hardcore partying.

If God has stated in His word that homosexual behavior is wrong or marriage is between male and female then, as the Creator He knows how His creation functions best and this wisdom is given out of LOVE.

Including His demand that you kill those people, right?

Of course there have been those that deny those studies. More research needs to be done, but the conclusions do not seem unreasonable.

I believe those studies. Anyone secure in their sexuality wouldn't care what someone else does.

 

[InChrist]

Not by yourself, but don’t you - and other like-minded people - vote?


The difference, of course, is that I don’t try to force people who don’t accept my views to live by them.

Obviously, that is not true because you are in feel that the bakers who do not accept your view on homosexual marriage should be forced to accept and live by this view or else lose their business and be fined a huge amount of money.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I don't think slavery was fine, just as I don't think it was fine for the Nazis to round up the Jews for concentration camps and extermination. In some cases, laws need to be broken. I would have helped runaway slaves or hidden Jews if in those situations, but I would not disrupt a same-sex marriage ceremony, although I don't agree with it or even think the law is correct.

Then you are being inconsistent with your prior post.

I will give you another chance. Do you oppose marriage equality?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Obviously, that is not true because you are in feel that the bakers who do not accept your view on homosexual marriage should be forced to accept and live by this view or else lose their business and be fined a huge amount of money.

No one is demanding that. All that they had to do was their job. That is all. Instead they broke the law and one of the reasons that the fine was so high was because of what they did after that. And once again you are being inconsistent. The law of the land is that that sort of bigotry is illegal. It appears that the "law of the land" excuse of yours was bogus.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Oh....there's that loaded emotive language again: homophobic bigotry. Because someone has a different perspective is no indication they are afraid of homosexuals, a bigot

The meaning of the suffix -phobia has been expanded to include more thanjust fear as it does in words like claustrophobia and arachnophobia.

Today, it refers to any aversion.

In medicine, photophobia refers to an aversion to light as might occur during a migraine, when the headache sufferer seeks a dark place to be until the event passes: "As a medical symptom, photophobia is not a morbid fear or phobia, but an experience of discomfort or pain to the eyes due to light exposure or by presence of actual physical sensitivity of the eyes"

or that they don't treat all people, whatever they're sexual orientation with respect and kindness.

If you believe that loving, committed same sex couples don't deserve the dignity and legal protections of marriage based on a book that tells you that homosexuals are an abomination in the eyes of a good and loving god, you make the cut. If you choose to accept those values, you will be adversely judged for your choice.

How is that not bigotry? I define the word as the irrational and hurtful/harmful treatment of every member of a class of law-abiding individuals simply for being a member of that class. If you believe that no same sex couples should be afforded those comforts and protections because their love offends your god, you meet the definition of a bigot.

 

[BSM1]

Only an idiot thinks more profits will come from keeping customers out.


It's not against the law for you to knowingly assist in a crime?

I would have broken no laws by contracting my services with a homeowner. And although I agree with your idiot business person statement, the money that I would have made was tempting.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Obviously, that is not true because you are in feel that the bakers who do not accept your view on homosexual marriage should be forced to accept and live by this view or else lose their business and be fined a huge amount of money.

I don’t think that anyone should be forced to participate in a same-sex wedding (or an inter-racial wedding, or any other sort of wedding that violates their conscience). This right is protected by making sure that nobody is forced to take a job or start a business that requires them to participate in weddings they disagree with.

When someone decides to offer services to the public, there’s nothing wrong with laws that say the service must be offered to the whole public.

If a baker doesn’t want to bake wedding cakes for same-sex marriages, I completely support his right to choose not to bake wedding cakes at all. I don’t think that a same-sex couple should have any right to walk into a bakery that only makes pies and bread, for instance, and insist that they provide them with a wedding cake.

As long as nobody is forced to enter or remain in a line of work that violates their conscience, reasonable rules governing an industry aren’t “forcing” anyone. People who don’t like those rules can look for work in another industry.

... but none of this is forcing people to violate their consciences. It’s only asking people to take full responsibility for their free choices.

 

[Revoltingest]

You do realize that there is a tie between homophobia and latent homosexuality, don't you? So calling hatred of homosexuals "homophobia" may be quite accurate. Those people that do hate homosexuals and are latent probably have a fear of following their hearts.

Check out....
#1, #3, #4

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Plenty. If God has stated in His word that homosexual behavior is wrong or marriage is between male and female then, as the Creator He knows how His creation functions best and this wisdom is given out of LOVE. So the kindness and most respectful approach is to kindly and respectfully agree with God and share His loving truth. And all I'm saying is share....not force, since hearts and minds are not truly changed for the better through force anyway.

I'm not sure I get your meaning. Are you saying that you express "kindness and respect" for LGBT people by trying to convince them not to engage in homosexual behaviour?

Are there any other ways that you express kindness and respect for LGBT people? For instance, many LGBT teens get thrown out of the house by their religious parents and end up on the street. Do you do anything to feed and clothe these kids in need? Do you minister to gay-bashers and try to stop them from using violence? Do you do anything to make gay people feel welcome in your business or workplace?

I hope you get the idea: regardless of how negatively you view "homosexual acts," there are plenty of ways that you could express kindness and respect for LGBT people. Do you do any of them, or do you just condemn gay people and call it kindness?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If God has stated in His word that homosexual behavior is wrong or marriage is between male and female then, as the Creator He knows how His creation functions best and this wisdom is given out of LOVE ... So the kindness and most respectful approach is to kindly and respectfully agree with God and share His loving truth.

That's not love, kindness, or respect. It is uncritically following commands written down centuries ago by people who claimed that they spoke for a good and loving god, and willingly serving as a vector for an irrational and destructive idea that marginalizes and demonizes an entire class of law abiding citizens based on nothing more than the willingness to believe.

Others don't really care if the religious feel malice or not. They hold them responsible for what they choose to endorse just as the religious judge others for their choices, but using values derived using reason and compassion rather than those in a book.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Obviously, that is not true because you are in feel that the bakers who do not accept your view on homosexual marriage should be forced to accept and live by this view or else lose their business and be fined a huge amount of money.

If the serve the public, they serve the public. If there is anything that could potentially compromise their morality, they should have taken another career path.