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Bakers Who Refused Lesbian Couple A Wedding Cake WILL Have To Pay $135,000

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You don't believe in unlimited freedom, I'm pretty sure.

No one does. Do I have the freedom to run a tank over your house and not pay for the damages? Unlimited freedom cannot exist because one person's "freedom" will inevitably run afoul of the "freedom" of another. That is why we have legislated limitations on our freedom. What we want is the most freedom possible. That is the ideal. And like most ideals it is not fully attainable.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Court rules Oregon bakers who refused to make lesbian couple a wedding cake WILL have to pay them $135,000 in damages

Owners of the since-closed Gresham bakery Aaron and Melissa Klein had refused to make a wedding cake for Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer
An appellate court Thursday upheld a penalty against the bakery owners and they will now have to pay the lesbian couple $135,000
Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer praised the ruling saying: 'Oregon will not allow a 'Straight Couples Only' sign to be hung in bakeries or other stores'

An appellate court Thursday upheld a penalty against Oregon bakery owners who refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding almost five years ago.

The owners of the since-closed Gresham bakery - Aaron and Melissa Klein - argued that state Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian violated state and federal laws by forcing them to pay emotional-distress damages of $135,000 to the lesbian couple Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer.

Their lawyers said Avakian and the state Bureau of Labor and Industries violated the Kleins' rights as artists to free speech, their rights to religious freedom and their rights as defendants to a due process.

But the Oregon Court of Appeals sided with the state Thursday, saying the Kleins failed to show the state targeted them for their religious beliefs.

The judges also found public statements made by Avakian before deciding the case did not establish a lack of impartiality.

'Today's ruling sends a strong signal that Oregon remains open to all,' Avakian said after the 62-page opinion was released Thursday.

The decision comes weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments in the high-profile case of a Colorado baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.
source

I can only say, good enough for them!

Don't go have a public business if you don't want to serve gays. But the owners of the business have to stop being whining snowflake victims of social injustice by the courts.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I believe some people deserve to burn in hell.
I believe that is one of the most irrational of standard Abrahamic teachings.

Once people are dead, they can't do any more harm. So making the world safer for the rest of us is no longer a reason for punishment.

If the evil folks can be rehabilitated, which seems an easy thing for Almighty God, that wouldn't be Hell. It would be more like the Catholic concept of Purgatory.

Simply punishing people because you can is called vengeance. And while I realize that the ethically primitive folks who wrote Scripture were pretty big on such things, modern ethics don't permit of gratuitous infliction of suffering.

I feel confident that Almighty God is keeping up with the times.

Tom
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I believe that is one of the most irrational of standard Abrahamic teachings.

Once people are dead, they can't do any more harm. So making the world safer for the rest of us is no longer a reason for punishment.

If the evil folks can be rehabilitated, which seems an easy thing for Almighty God, that wouldn't be Hell. It would be more like the Catholic concept of Purgatory.

Simply punishing people because you can is called vengeance. And while I realize that the ethically primitive folks who wrote Scripture were pretty big on such things, modern ethics don't permit of gratuitous infliction of suffering.

I feel confident that Almighty God is keeping up with the times.

Tom

Your God sounds like a God of hate more than a God of love.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Has anyone bothered to ask, Why is it that no gays bother to go into a bakery owned by Muslims and ask them to bake them a cake ?

There was a survey that was done not long back, after that incident of the Christian bakery, that they went into Muslim owned bakery, and was told no they would not bake such a cake.

But yet, you do not hear the homosexualls crying out about this ?
Or even attempting to go to a Muslim owned bakery and request a cake?

What's up with all that?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Has anyone bothered to ask, Why is it that no gays bother to go into a bakery owned by Muslims and ask them to bake them a cake ?

There was a survey that was done not long back, after that incident of the Christian bakery, that they went into Muslim owned bakery, and was told no they would not bake such a cake.

But yet, you do not hear the homosexualls crying out about this ?
Or even attempting to go to a Muslim owned bakery and request a cake?

What's up with all that?

Anecdotes are worthless in a debate. Can you support your claim?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Anecdotes are worthless in a debate. Can you support your claim?

Sure I can support my claim, just go Google it.
Hidden camera, gay wedding cake at Muslim bakeries denied.
Where a person went into a Muslim bakery, asking about a gay wedding cake and was denied. Just to see what would happen if ask a Muslim bakery to make a gay wedding cake.

Have you ever hear of any gays going into a Muslim bakery or sueing a Muslim bakery.
There's your proof.

So where's the out cry from the gay community over this?
So what's up with all that.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Has anyone bothered to ask, Why is it that no gays bother to go into a bakery owned by Muslims and ask them to bake them a cake ?
How many Muslim-owned bakeries that do wedding cakes are there in the US? How many are owned by bigots?

You’re drawing from a pretty small pool there.

There was a survey that was done not long back, after that incident of the Christian bakery, that they went into Muslim owned bakery, and was told no they would not bake such a cake.

But yet, you do not hear the homosexualls crying out about this ?
Or even attempting to go to a Muslim owned bakery and request a cake?

What's up with all that?
Why do gay people not complain about a story they never heard of, and that you may have just made up? I can think of one reason.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
So where's the out cry from the gay community over this?
So what's up with all that.
If I lived in Pakistan I would probably feel the same way about Muslims.
But I don't.
It's always the Christians trying to ram their primitive beliefs and ethics down my throat, because that's the dominant religious group around here.
So get over your persecution complex. It's embarrassing to watch.
Tom
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
How many Muslim-owned bakeries that do wedding cakes are there in the US? How many are owned by bigots?

You’re drawing from a pretty small pool there.
Why do gay people not complain about a story they never heard of, and that you may have just made up? I can think of one reason.

It doesn't matter, it's the point of the matter that counts.

Well like I said, go Google it.
Hidden camera gay wedding cake at Muslim bakeries denyed.

The survey was done, to see what would happen if a Muslim bakery was ask to make a gay wedding cake. And was turned down.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
If I lived in Pakistan I would probably feel the same way about Muslims.
But I don't.
It's always the Christians trying to ram their primitive beliefs and ethics down my throat, because that's the dominant religious group around here.
So get over your persecution complex. It's embarrassing to watch.
Tom


Truth hurts doesn't it.
 

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
Assuming the hidden camera thing is real (no, you google it and provide the source for us), it is up to the hidden camera man to provide the lawsuit. Until then, nothing can happen. It's not up to everyone else to jump on businesses if nothing actually happens.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The truth is that Christians squeal about being persecuted when they lose the ability to persecute with impunity.

So, NO, actually I love the truth.
Tom

Then what are you crying about. Christian refuse to bake a gay cake and the whole world falls apart.
But when a Muslim bakery does the same thing, there's nothing said about it.
 

Jesster

Friendly skeptic
Premium Member
Then what are you crying about. Christian refuse to bake a gay cake and the whole world falls apart.
But when a Muslim bakery does the same thing, there's nothing said about it.
Again, nobody filed a lawsuit. I'd be just as against a Muslim doing this as with a Christian. Tell the camera man you keep talking about, and not us. Their case was real, and not just a test to prove some flimsy point, right? Right?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It doesn't matter, it's the point of the matter that counts.

Well like I said, go Google it.
Hidden camera gay wedding cake at Muslim bakeries denyed.
If you can’t be bothered to defend your own claim, why would you think it’s worth my time to make your argument for you?

The survey was done, to see what would happen if a Muslim bakery was ask to make a gay wedding cake. And was turned down.
And - if this was even true - you think this could be used to make broad-brush assumptions about an entire religion?

It’s important to recognize here that most Christian bakers probably don’t discriminate against LGBT people. It’s just that the headline “gay couple has a problem-free experience buying a lovely cake from helpful, talented bakers” only works in Wedding Bells magazine, not the newspaper.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Then what are you crying about. Christian refuse to bake a gay cake and the whole world falls apart.
Nonsense.
I'm not crying, you are. I, personally, thought that lawsuit against the bakery was the very definition of frivolous suits. But it was over a point of law, a law that is on the books there.
So just get over yourself, you bunch of dang snowflakes.
Tom
 
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