Basis for Trusting Muhammad?

[FearGod]

By people who also had the same honest character as Muhammad?

As Moses too, i don't know why you need to compare people with other people.

Honestly, can you explain why not? What is the difference between Muhammad and him that you would only want to learn about one and not the other? With so many prophecies that came true, is it not possible that he is also a prophet of G-d, even if he doesn't actually have much of a message?

Why i have to?

 

[Augustus]

Someone already mentioned it, so read the previous posts.

I was repeating it for your benefit. You didn't quite grasp the concept that people fighting with swords who are familiar with stories about cities being destroyed in a single day could indeed imagine cities being destroyed in a single day.

You seem to think that the people of late antiquity were all complete morons.

When one other hadith says that people will compete in constructing the taller buildings
then we may imagine how the great cities will look like.

Again, people 'competing' in the construction of tall buildings was a concept that people back then were indeed familiar with. The Romans elites constructed impressive buildings to glorify themselves, the gods and Rome. There was even a building over 100m high not too far from Arabia, the lighthouse of Alexandria.

People competing in the construction of tall buildings has been happening continuously for millennia, so it doesn't seem to be a particularly accurate way to predict the imminency of the 'hour'

 

[Tumah]

As Moses too, i don't know why you need to compare people with other people.

I don't understand what you mean. The people who transmitted the Hadith had the same character as Moses?

Why i have to?

You don't have to do anything you don't want to. I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to. The same like with the Bab, if there is the possibility that these are new prophets from All-h, I would think you would want to investigate such an important thing.

 

[Pastek]

If you believe in the Qur'an because Muhammad was trustworthy, then why don't you believe in the Bab, who was trustworthy as well?

Because the Prophet Muhammad told us there's no more prophet after him.

 

[FearGod]

I was repeating it for your benefit. You didn't quite grasp the concept that people fighting with swords who are familiar with stories about cities being destroyed in a single day could indeed imagine cities being destroyed in a single day.

You seem to think that the people of late antiquity were all complete morons.

I asked and repeat for those that can't really grasp and understand, how many great cities were destroyed from
the date of Mohammed till our days, the answer was 2 cities were ruined, hiroshima and nagasaki.

Do you have a better answer? and you have to put in account that the destruction of the cities mentioned in the hadith
isn't by God's punishment or natural disasters otherwise it'll be mentioned as so.

Again, people 'competing' in the construction of tall buildings was a concept that people back then were indeed familiar with. The Romans elites constructed impressive buildings to glorify themselves, the gods and Rome. There was even a building over 100m high not too far from Arabia, the lighthouse of Alexandria.

People competing in the construction of tall buildings has been happening continuously for millennia, so it doesn't seem to be a particularly accurate way to predict the imminency of the 'hour'

Yes even during the time of prophet Mohammed they were competing in constructing high buildings(sarcasm), so
he foretold them a bout a thing that they were actually doing(sarcasm), i heard that one man told him how that is a prophecy
and we're competing right now in constructing many high buildings(false story), i don't know what his name was but that man was
believed to be a moron because at that time no one indeed was interesting in constructing a highest building.(sarcasm).

In our modern time the highest buildings are located in Dubai and they're really doing it as kind of competition.

Can you tell me from the date of prophet Mohammed till the date 1300, how many tall buildings were constructed and whom was competing whom?

 

[FearGod]

I don't understand what you mean. The people who transmitted the Hadith had the same character as Moses?

I don't know really what kind of people were they, i didn't ever meet them or talked to them, i told you they were similar to Moses, kind of sarcasm.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to. I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to. The same like with the Bab, if there is the possibility that these are new prophets from All-h, I would think you would want to investigate such an important thing.

I investigated them , not only the Bab and even Mirza Gulam Ahmed and i found them both to be fake prophets,
if you want to discuss why the Bab and Mirza are fake prophets or what will make you to believe them as prophets
if you were living in their era, then you need to make one thread similar to this one.

 

[Tumah]

Because the Prophet Muhammad told us there's no more prophet after him.

Maybe it was a very early mistake in the ayah about that? It happened in the Tawrat as well. A number of prophets said the Tawrat will never change, but prophet Muhammad said that at the end, it did change. So the same thing maybe happened to the Qur'an.

 

[Tumah]

I don't know really what kind of people were they, i didn't ever meet them or talked to them, i told you they were similar to Moses, kind of sarcasm.

Oh haha, I didn't realize. So if we don't have any testimony about their honesty, how can we trust them?

I investigated them , not only the Bab and even Mirza Gulam Ahmed and i found them both to be fake prophets,
if you want to discuss why the Bab and Mirza are fake prophets or what will make you to believe them as prophets
if you were living in their era, then you need to make one thread similar to this one.

Well, we don't need to discuss why to believe them, since like you said that's not for this thread. But what is related is what's the difference between them and Muhammad, that Muhammad is believed but them not.

 

[Pastek]

Maybe it was a very early mistake in the ayah about that? It happened in the Tawrat as well. A number of prophets said the Tawrat will never change, but prophet Muhammad said that at the end, it did change. So the same thing maybe happened to the Qur'an.

God doesn't make any mistake and people since the beginning used to learn the Quran by heart.
He even said that in the hadith that between him and Jesus there's no other prophet and after him no other prophet will come.
We have many prophecies and none of them include any prophet (except the Messiah of course).

As for the Torah the prophet Jeremiah said people changed the Law (8.8) :
‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

God didn't change His Law, it's the people who did it i think here is the difference.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me as though you are looking at Islam as an Eastern religion: a wise man giving over his musings called the Qur'an, rather than a revelation from All-h.

Anything wrong in believing a wise man's advice rather than unproven prophetship from an unproven God?

Because the Prophet Muhammad told us there's no more prophet after him.

Really, I thought it was Bahaullah said that. "No manifestation of God for the next 800 years".

 

[Tumah]

Anything wrong in believing a wise man's advice rather than unproven prophetship from an unproven God?

Yes, sometimes it shows an inability to expand the mind to see things from other angles and through other people's eyes.
Do you have that problem?

 

[Pastek]

Really, I thought it was Bahaullah said that. "No manifestation of God for the next 800 years".

I don't know what he said but Prophet Muhammad didn't give any date.

 

[FearGod]

Oh haha, I didn't realize. So if we don't have any testimony about their honesty, how can we trust them?

I trust the events which prove that what they said was true.

Well, we don't need to discuss why to believe them, since like you said that's not for this thread. But what is related is what's the difference between them and Muhammad, that Muhammad is believed but them not.

What makes sense to you not necessarily will make sense to the others, some will believe the Bab, some will believe Murza,
some will believe Jesus is God, some will believe the Satan ....etc.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What makes sense to you not necessarily will make sense to the others, some will believe the Bab, some will believe Mirza, some will believe Jesus is God, some will believe the Satan ....etc.

Yeah, in Abrahamic religions you do not need a reason to believe other than what the sons and emissaries of their Gods said. You are never supposed to question that. That would be blasphemy.

 

[Tumah]

God doesn't make any mistake and people since the beginning used to learn the Quran by heart.

Yes and the Tawrat was written down, which makes it even harder to forget. But it happened anyway, right? If writing it down doesn t help, memorizing it certainly wouldn't.

He even said that in the hadith that between him and Jesus there's no other prophet and after him no other prophet will come.
We have many prophecies and none of them include any prophet (except the Messiah of course).

Right, but we are still waiting for testimony from the enemies of those that said the hadith, that they were honest men.

As for the Torah the prophet Jeremiah said people changed the Law (8.8) :
‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

God didn't change His Law, it's the people who did it i think here is the difference.

But Jeremiah himself was a prophet. So he and the prophets after him knew what it should say. But neither he nor any prophets after him ever repeated this problem. Obviously it was just a problem in his generation or he would be repeating this issue again and again like the prophets do with other problems. Do you know how many generations of prophets complained about idol worship?
Jeremiah is not a good basis for such a claim.

 

[Tumah]

I trust the events which prove that what they said was true.

That's a good reason to believe Nostradamus too though. So why not?

What makes sense to you not necessarily will make sense to the others, some will believe the Bab, some will believe Murza,
some will believe Jesus is God, some will believe the Satan ....etc.

That is definitely true. I assume All-h wouldn't have any problem with someone not believing Muhamad was his prophet because of that reason too. Do you agree?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, sometimes it shows an inability to expand the mind to see things from other angles and through other people's eyes. Do you have that problem?

If the person who is advising really wise then he would not want that. That is possible only when one restricts his/her views to just one book or one person with no guarantee whether they say wise things.

 

[gnostic]

I wouldn't trust any prophet, messenger, messiah, apostle, disciple, saint, etc. That would include Muhammad.

 

[Tumah]

I wouldn't trust any prophet, messenger, messiah, apostle, disciple, saint, etc. That would include Muhammad.

Well this wasn't a poll thread to see who would or not. But thanks for your input.

 

[Pastek]

Yes and the Tawrat was written down, which makes it even harder to forget. But it happened anyway, right? If writing it down doesn t help, memorizing it certainly wouldn't.

Some can change the writtings then you learn false things later, while when people are used to learn by heart all the Book when you change it they know it.
It's something we are used to do since the Prophet and only in arabic, that's why we all have the same Quran.

Right, but we are still waiting for testimony from the enemies of those that said the hadith, that they were honest men.

I don't understand, who are the honests here ?

But Jeremiah himself was a prophet. So he and the prophets after him knew what it should say. But neither he nor any prophets after him ever repeated this problem. Obviously it was just a problem in his generation or he would be repeating this issue again and again like the prophets do with other problems. Do you know how many generations of prophets complained about idol worship?
Jeremiah is not a good basis for such a claim.

Maybe i don't know enought the Scriptures.
I can't say if the Law itself changed, but i just know that some events are differents from Quran and that some laws may have been added.
Jesus said, that they teached "laws of men" and make it harder to people once they become believers which probably mean they invented laws or things like that.