Being A Homosexual is not a Sin.

[Sees]

Sooo... How is it anything not harmful is a sin?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, the second class female is definitely tied to this stuff in witnessing that what we are dealing with is ancient cultural bigotry, not divine decree.

Certainly. No matter what the original reason for that decree was, it should have no bearing on us in the here and now and should be thrown into the trash heap of history.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

There is nowhere in the Bible that says that being a homosexual person is a sin that I can find.

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." (NLT)

Judges 19:16-24
"You are welcome to stay with me," the old man said. "I will give you anything you might need. But whatever you do, don't spend the night in the square." So he took them home with him and fed the donkeys. After they washed their feet, they ate and drank together. While they were enjoying themselves, a crowd of troublemakers from the town surrounded the house. They began beating at the door and shouting to the old man, "Bring out the man who is staying with you so we can have sex with him." The old man stepped outside to talk to them. "No, my brothers, don't do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this man's concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you like. But don't do such a shameful thing to this man." (NLT)


1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)


And so on. The word that pops up the most here is practices.


It doesn't say anywhere that merely being homosexual is a sin against God. But only if you practice it.



In short: God hates the sin, not the sinner.

Even so...That would still make God a tremendous jerk. He creates people with homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and then gets mad and throws them in hell when they actually act on it. What exactly did he expect?

 

[Mycroft]

Even so...That would still make God a tremendous jerk. He creates people with homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and then gets mad and throws them in hell when they actually act on it. What exactly did he expect?

Which for a supreme intelligence is a bit silly, lending further weight to the idea that he, perhaps, does not exist and was made up by Human Males of a certain period of time in a certain society.

 

[Skwim]

Second the vast majority of Christians don't even understand what is really being condemned in the OT (hint: it is NOT homosexuality). Rather it is two things: the ancient practice of raping strangers and enemies as a means to humiliate them and engaging in sexual practices as a means of worship.

Really!

Well, Leviticus is pretty clear on the point.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.
​

Neither suggest anything close to "raping strangers and enemies."

Fourth, from a purely Gnostic pov, all sexual desire is a distraction that binds us to material existence. There is no form of it better than any other.

Not sure what object one is distracted from, but our life is inexorably tied to the vagaries of our material existence, most significantly those that pertain to self preservation and our happiness. Sexual desire, while powerful, is typically a short term indulgence that no more distracts one from other issues than does any other of our wants and needs. If one picks on sexual desire, then you may as well pick on music, poetry, art, hobbies, and sports; all of which have a basis in our material existence and can entail a fair amount of time. We are bound to our material existence by a lot more than sexual desire.

 

[nazz]

Really!

Well, Leviticus is pretty clear on the point.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.
​

Neither suggest anything close to "raping strangers and enemies."

That's why context is so important. Those hearing these laws would know the context. It was a common practice is the ANE and shows up in the story of Sodom. The men of Sodom were obviously not homosexuals since Lot offered him his virgin daughters. And since it says all of the men approached Lot they could not have all been gay. The same story shows up in another place in the OT: Jdg 19:22-30

As for the connection with idolatry that is quite clear when one looks at the surrounding passages. It was for these practices God was driving out the Canaanites from the promised land.

Rabbinical interpretation of the quoted passages has always been that it refers to male on male anal intercourse. The sexual orientation of the people involved is irrelevant. There is no prohibition in the Torah against lesbian acts. To say the OT condemns "homosexuality" is ludicrous.

Not sure what object one is distracted from, but our life is inexorably tied to the vagaries of our material existence, most significantly those that pertain to self preservation and our happiness. Sexual desire, while powerful, is typically a short term indulgence that no more distracts one from other issues than does any other of our wants and needs. If one picks on sexual desire, then you may as well pick on music, poetry, art, hobbies, and sports; all of which have a basis in our material existence and can entail a fair amount of time. We are bound to our material existence by a lot more than sexual desire.

Sure, it is just one of many things that would bring us back in an endless cycle of birth and rebirth.

 

[Mycroft]

Fourth, from a purely Gnostic pov, all sexual desire is a distraction that binds us to material existence. There is no form of it better than any other.

Ironic statement given that, had it not been for sexual desire (that twinkle in your parent's eyes on late night) you would not exist.

Unless you wish us to believe you were concieved via the posting of romantic correspondance through the post?

Sexual desire is nature's way to ensure procreation. It happens in all living beings. It is a mechanism to ensure the survival of species. It is as natural as the world you propose is created by a divine entity.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Ironic statement given that, had it not been for sexual desire (that twinkle in your parent's eyes on late night) you would not exist.

Not ironic at all. It's kind of exactly the point.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ironic statement given that, had it not been for sexual desire (that twinkle in your parent's eyes on late night) you would not exist.

Unless you wish us to believe you were concieved via the posting of romantic correspondance through the post?

Sexual desire is nature's way to ensure procreation. It happens in all living beings. It is a mechanism to ensure the survival of species. It is as natural as the world you propose is created by a divine entity.

Nazz is a Gnostic. They don't view bring born into this world as a good thing.

 

[Agnostic75]

There is no prohibition in the Torah against lesbian acts. To say the OT condemns "homosexuality" is ludicrous.

Does the Old Testament condemn same-sex behavior? Given the widespread historical persecution of people who engage in same-sex behavior, I would be surprised if ancient Hebrews did not oppose same-sex behavior.

 

[Mycroft]

Nazz is a Gnostic. They don't view bring born into this world as a good thing.

In that case, how can they be expected to make any positive contribution to it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In that case, how can they be expected to make any positive contribution to it?

Gnostics apparently want to help wake people to what they see is the truth about reality so hopefully other people will feel encouraged to take steps to break the cycle of rebirths and leave it. They don't seem to be big on preaching, however.

 

[Mycroft]

Gnostics apparently want to help wake people to what they see is the truth about reality so hopefully other people will feel encouraged to take steps to break the cycle of rebirths and leave it. They don't seem to be big on preaching, however.

Reality itself? Or their perceieved reality?

The former, of course, is nebulous. Even the best scientific minds cannot yet fathom what is reality?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Reality itself? Or their perceieved reality?

The former, of course, is nebulous. Even the best scientific minds cannot yet fathom what is reality?

Er, are you familiar with the basics of Gnostic theology?

 

[Mycroft]

Er, are you familiar with the basics of Gnostic theology?

Not particularly.

 

[allright]

You still have the orientation and the desires but you're repressing it. It's not healthy.

Right so child rapists are merely doing whats heathly for them Its the healthy thing to do

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not particularly.

Ah. Well, most Gnostics tend to believe that the creator god of the Old Testament is a lesser god who entrapped spiritual beings in physical matter, thus separating them from the true transcendent God. They believe that they must work to realize the truth by attaining Gnosis (spiritual knowledge), break the cycle of life-death-rebirth and unite with the true God (basically being absorbed into it, I guess). They view Jesus as a messenger of this true God and believe that by following his teachings, they can attain Gnosis. They tend to take a very negative view of physical existence, focusing on suffering as evidence that this realm could not have been the creation of a loving, perfect being.

In some ways, they're very similar to Hindus in that Hindus wish to break the cycle of reincarnation, attain liberation and reunite with Brahman.

Right so child rapists are merely doing whats heathly for them Its the healthy thing to do

Yeah, no. I already talked about that. Don't be silly by comparing homosexuality to raping kids.

 

[nazz]

Ironic statement given that, had it not been for sexual desire (that twinkle in your parent's eyes on late night) you would not exist.

Unless you wish us to believe you were concieved via the posting of romantic correspondance through the post?

Sexual desire is nature's way to ensure procreation. It happens in all living beings. It is a mechanism to ensure the survival of species. It is as natural as the world you propose is created by a divine entity.

I propose no such thing. Please do not tell me what I believe.

 

[nazz]

Does the Old Testament condemn same-sex behavior? Given the widespread historical persecution of people who engage in same-sex behavior, I would be surprised if ancient Hebrews did not oppose same-sex behavior.

It doesn't as I have pointed out except in certain situations. How later people interpreted things is another matter.

 

[nazz]

Nazz is a Gnostic. They don't view bring born into this world as a good thing.

Exactly. I am thankful to exist of course. I would just rather be doing my existing somewhere else.