• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Belief of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Protester

Active Member
The official site would be Jehovah's Witnesses: Watchtower Society Official Web Site

If one wants to know about the Jewish faith wouldn't one ask a Jew?

If one wants to know about the Hindu faith wouldn't one ask a Hindu?

So, if one wants to know about the Jehovah Witnesses ask a Witness.

Now I have put up what a What is the Baptist Church and what do Baptists believe?
and I'm sure Jehovah Witnesses... have put up their own sites too, as other off shoots of Seventh-day Adventism, such as Urantia.

But let's look at an example, you're going to go out to buy a car or a computer, you may or may not look on the official site for that car or computer, but you you'll probably look at reviews, perhaps even paying special attention to the negative ones. Why you might even go to Wikipedia, especially if your trying to get a different (though at times I wouldn't say unbiased) opinion on a religion. So, no, I have no problems with people looking at various sources, I don't even have a problem even looking at such things as the negative program that was recently done on Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Churches that was done on ABC (You can go look it up, I'm only going to be that much help.;)) I have no problem discussing topics such as that. You can't be completely thin-skinned if you're on the Internet.

As the ACLU said about a certain behavior that was criticized, We don't want to stop speech, but have more speech (for them!:p) to cure the problem.
http://withchrist.org/urantia.htm
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
......but have more speech to cure the problem....

It was the speech that the people of Acts [17v11] were hearing.
They did not take that 'speech' at face value but examined the Scriptures daily to see if the speech that they were hearing was really found in Scripture.

They searched or researched the Scriptures each day to see if what they were learning was really so or really what the Bible really teaches.

No one should be saying anyone should be gullible [without checking first] but as Daniel wrote that the time would come when knowledge would be increased. [Daniel 12vs4.9]
Daniel was taking about biblical knowledge or biblical education of Scripture.
People today can rove 'to and fro' between the pages of Scripture as never before.
People can compare the Bible writers by comparing corresponding or parallel verses and passages by topic or subject arrangement.

The words of Proverbs [4v18] is proving true that the 'religious' path for the righteous grows lighter and lighter as biblical light [knowledge] shines more and more.......
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Wiki says something about a Bible student movement in the 1870s. If this is correct and accurate, then do JWs see all Christians before them as misguided until they "found the truth" in the 1870s?

im sorry i missed this part of your questions earlier.

the way we see christianity is how it has been prophesied in the greek scriptures. Jesus and his apostles formed one church and for a short time, it was completely united. However, they foretold that christianity would become spiritually dark for a time which would lead to serious problems. They foretold that after the apostles were gone, christians would be led astray from the path of truth, they would teach falsehoods and all christianity would be affected.

for example, these scriptures explain the how the darkness would happen:

Acts 20:29 I know that after my (Apostle Paul) going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things

2Timothy 4:3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories

1Timothy 4:1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies


Jesus also gave an illustration which demonstrates how christianity would become like a field of good and bad seeds:
Matthew 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”

So this is the history of Christianity in a nutshell. It started off with Jesus and his 12 apostles, but after the apostles were gone, the 'weedlike' christians began to appear and christianity became distorted and corrupted. Notice in Jesus illustration that he said an 'enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat'... the enemy is satan and the weeds he sowed were christians who did not adhere to the faith of Christ. These are people who favor the lie in place of truth and who used the christian church for their own means. It explains why christianity has been responsible for some hideous crimes.

But it was also prophesied by the prophet Daniel many centuries earlier that during the 'last days' many would seek to know the meaning of Gods word and understanding would become abundant:
Daniel 12:4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

So even though christianity was divided and corrupt, it didnt mean that all individual christians were corrupt too. There have always been 'wheatlike christians' in among the weedlike christians.
Those early bible students were studying the scriptures for the purpose of understanding them. They came to realise that many of their long held church doctrines were not true...the trinity was out, the perpetual virgin was out, christmas was out, the 6 days of creation were out, the immortal soul was out, purgatory and hell were out and a number of other teachings...they published these truths to other christians who in turn joined the bible students association and left their own christian churches.
 

Villager

Active Member
I've been hearing a lot about Jehovah's Witnesses. Could someone elaborate on how they differ from other Christians other than the fact that they have a "non-trinitarian" belief.
Any person who claims that, in order to be a Christian, anything at all other than faith that Christ died for one's sins, is no Christian. Insistence on membership of any particular organisation, or of any organisation at all, is a sure sign of non-Christianity (or culthood). All such things are akin to circumcision, which makes Christ useless if any faith is put in it.

Jehovah's Witnesses are Arian. Trinitarianism is polytheism. Both Arianism and trinitarianism are attacks on Christ, and are heresies.
 

Protester

Active Member
I will agree about:

Acts 17
11Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12Many of them therefore believed; also of the prominent Greek women, and not a few men.
---World English Bible

But they of course took a rational approach to studying scriptures, They used Proper Biblical Interpretation! The article really gets most things correctly and can be applied to many groups and not just one.

To take a short excerpt out of the above article

[FONT=times new roman, arial, helvetica][FONT=times new roman, arial, helvetica]Now, the task of hermeneutics is to realize first of all that there is a God given meaning in Scripture apart from you or me or anybody else. Scripture means something, [even] if it means nothing to me. Understood? It means something if it means nothing to you. It means something if it means nothing to anybody. It means something in itself and that meaning is determined by God, the author, not by one who is going through some kind of mystical experience. The interpreter's task, then, is to discern that meaning; to discover the meaning of the text in its proper setting; to draw the meaning out of the Scripture, rather than to read one's meaning into it. The importance of careful Biblical interpretation can hardly be overstated. We spend three or four years at the Master's Seminary trying to teach men how to do this, because it is the heart and soul of effective ministry. In fact, I would go so far as to say, misinterpreting the Bible is ultimately no better than disbelieving it. [/FONT][/FONT]---John MacArthur
http://www.ondoctrine.com/2mac0077.htm
 

muslim-

Active Member
im sorry i missed this part of your questions earlier.

the way we see christianity is how it has been prophesied in the greek scriptures. Jesus and his apostles formed one church and for a short time, it was completely united. However, they foretold that christianity would become spiritually dark for a time which would lead to serious problems. They foretold that after the apostles were gone, christians would be led astray from the path of truth, they would teach falsehoods and all christianity would be affected.

for example, these scriptures explain the how the darkness would happen:

Acts 20:29 I know that after my (Apostle Paul) going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things

2Timothy 4:3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories

1Timothy 4:1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies


Jesus also gave an illustration which demonstrates how christianity would become like a field of good and bad seeds:
Matthew 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”

So this is the history of Christianity in a nutshell. It started off with Jesus and his 12 apostles, but after the apostles were gone, the 'weedlike' christians began to appear and christianity became distorted and corrupted. Notice in Jesus illustration that he said an 'enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat'... the enemy is satan and the weeds he sowed were christians who did not adhere to the faith of Christ. These are people who favor the lie in place of truth and who used the christian church for their own means. It explains why christianity has been responsible for some hideous crimes.

But it was also prophesied by the prophet Daniel many centuries earlier that during the 'last days' many would seek to know the meaning of Gods word and understanding would become abundant:
Daniel 12:4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”

So even though christianity was divided and corrupt, it didnt mean that all individual christians were corrupt too. There have always been 'wheatlike christians' in among the weedlike christians.
Those early bible students were studying the scriptures for the purpose of understanding them. They came to realise that many of their long held church doctrines were not true...the trinity was out, the perpetual virgin was out, christmas was out, the 6 days of creation were out, the immortal soul was out, purgatory and hell were out and a number of other teachings...they published these truths to other christians who in turn joined the bible students association and left their own christian churches.

I just read this answer so sorry for the late reply. Very interesting. So I guess the answer is yes (kinda).

Anyhow, again, I find this very interesting and thank you for taking the time to write this reply.

JWs don't believe in hell?

Also, how do JW's see Paul? Is it in the same way other Christians do?
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
JWs don't believe in hell?

According to Acts [2vs27,31;Psalm 16v10] Jesus was in hell.

However, there is a difference between the 'Bible's hell' [sheol]
and the 'non-biblical hell' with it's burning fire.

Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state [John 11vs11-14]
Jesus was well educated in the holy Hebrew OT Scriptures.
That is where Jesus would have learned about the sleeping state of the dead.

Jesus would have known the Psalms.
Such as Psalms:
6v5 saying in death there is no remembrance......
13v3 mentions sleeping the sleep of death
115v17 says the dead do not praise God
146v4 mentions at death thoughts perish

Jesus would have also known King Solomon's writings.
King Solomon, known for his God-given wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9v5
that the dead are Not conscious of anything. The dead know nothing.

Confusion about hell/hellfire is partly because the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words haides and Gehenna translated in the King James Version as hell and hellfire.

'Sheol' was just the common grave of mankind.
[even the word cemetery means: sleeping place]
Gehenna is a different word from haides or Sheol
Gehenna in Jesus day was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever.
When translated into English as hellfire, it sounds as if it is painful burning instead of destruction, or being destroyed forever. [Psalm 92v7]

According to Scripture [Rev.20vs13,14] the' Bible's hell' is temporary.
Everyone in the biblical hell are 'delivered up' in the sense of being resurrected up out of hell or gravedom.
Then, once the biblical hell is emptied out,
then vacant-of-people hell will be cast into a symbolic: second death.
A 'second death' of no further existence anywhere.
Satan is even destroyed in second death.- Rev 21v8; Hebrews 2v14 B.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I just read this answer so sorry for the late reply. Very interesting. So I guess the answer is yes (kinda).

Anyhow, again, I find this very interesting and thank you for taking the time to write this reply.

JWs don't believe in hell?

we take our understanding of hell from what the original words mean. In the hebrew scriptures, the original word is Sheol. That is the word which is translated into the english word hell. That original hebrew word meant 'the grave'....the burial place. It didnt mean anything more then that. So when the scriptures speak of hell/sheol as a punishment for the wicked, we understand that it means their life will be taken away and they will return to the ground. That is the eternal punishment that the wicked will receive. And the old english word 'hell' actually does mean to cover over... helling potatoes was the old practice of putting the potatoes in a cellar in the ground which is what we do with the dead when they die, we bury them. The meaning of hell has changed over the years though, but hell certainly never meant a place of fire and torment or a place of suffering.

Also, how do JW's see Paul? Is it in the same way other Christians do?

We see him as a man who was used in a very great way by God. He was previously a persecutor of christians, but he was given a vision of Christ in heaven, Christ actually spoke to him and Paul became blinded. Thereafter he was taught about Christ by the Apostle Peter and Paul became a christian. He was used by Christ to teach people of the nations and his letters are invaluable to us as christians.
 
Last edited:

muslim-

Active Member
URAVIP2ME, Pegg. Thank you.

Interesting answers, especially that "Gehenna" is similar to the Arabic word "Jehennam" used for the hellfire in the afterlife. I looked up the Arabic origins and found interesting info. Also I found some info on ancient Egyptians origin of the "em/am" part as well (meaning flame).

image032.jpg


Its similar to the Arabic meaning, in a way, in which it has more of a (purely linguistic) meaning of "pit".

Your answers are really informative, and I like how usually answers of JWs are usually consistent. This is a trait that shows that the faith and beliefs are taken seriously far from random thoughts of individuals.

So the punishment of "the wicked" is going back to the ground with life taken away, does this mean all wickeds are equal in crime and punishment? For instance, one who denies Christ is a messenger or (put whatever proper description here), another believes in him but would commit murder or theft etc, and a third is in doubt, a fourth denies the existence of God, a fifth believes but in practice, would carelessly mock religion, Christ etc, taking things lightly.

So is there one punishment for all? Muslims believe in different "levels" of hell, and that even some extremly sinful believers (if God chooses not to forgive) would be purified in hell and then enter heaven.

So is there any concept in your belief that would allow different levels of punishment for different crimes? Or is it simply the wicked are weeded out regardless of the level of their sins and not given anymore life, so that only the "good" enter heaven?

Another question would be "who enters heaven?" is it based on belief? works? or both?

Again thanks for the time and effort you put into the answers.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME, Pegg. Thank you.
Interesting answers, especially that "Gehenna" is similar to the Arabic word "Jehennam" used for the hellfire in the afterlife. I looked up the Arabic origins and found interesting info. Also I found some info on ancient Egyptians origin of the "em/am" part as well (meaning flame).

image032.jpg


Its similar to the Arabic meaning, in a way, in which it has more of a (purely linguistic) meaning of "pit".
Your answers are really informative, and I like how usually answers of JWs are usually consistent. This is a trait that shows that the faith and beliefs are taken seriously far from random thoughts of individuals.
So the punishment of "the wicked" is going back to the ground with life taken away, does this mean all wickeds are equal in crime and punishment? For instance, one who denies Christ is a messenger or (put whatever proper description here), another believes in him but would commit murder or theft etc, and a third is in doubt, a fourth denies the existence of God, a fifth believes but in practice, would carelessly mock religion, Christ etc, taking things lightly.
So is there one punishment for all? Muslims believe in different "levels" of hell, and that even some extremly sinful believers (if God chooses not to forgive) would be purified in hell and then enter heaven.
So is there any concept in your belief that would allow different levels of punishment for different crimes? Or is it simply the wicked are weeded out regardless of the level of their sins and not given anymore life, so that only the "good" enter heaven?
Another question would be "who enters heaven?" is it based on belief? works? or both?
Again thanks for the time and effort you put into the answers.

And thank you muslim for your reply.

In Scripture sin is either: deliberate, intentional, on purpose, premeditated,
or done by mistake or by accident.

The penalty for the wicked according to 2nd Thess 1v9 is:
that they are punished with 'everlasting destruction'. -Psalm 92v7
Even Satan is destroyed according to Hebrews [2v14 B]
Destroyed in 'second death' -Rev 21v8.

So, yes all the wicked are 'weeded' out. [Proverbs 2vs21,22;10v30;21v18]
Jesus gave an illustration which also includes 'genuine wheat Christians' and 'fake weed/tares Christians' would grown together until the harvest time, or the time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32; Matthew chapter 7

So, whether 'death' or 'second death' the condition is the same EXCEPT
that for those in 'second death' there is No further existence anywhere.
Even emptied-out biblical hell [sheol] is destroyed in 'second death'.
-Rev 20vs13,14.

Only one price is paid for sin according to Romans [6vs7,23]
That one equal price is: 'death'.
[No post-mortem penalties]
[Ecc. 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17;Daniel 12vs2,13; John 11vs11-14]
Death frees or acquits a person from sin. [Romans 6v7]
[That is from Adamic sin or inherited sinful imperfection]
So, 'death' stamps the asking price of sin as: Paid in Full.
However, please keep in mind being acquitted does not mean now innocent.
Rather like when a Judge pardons a person so the crime [sin] charges no longer stick.

That still leaves us with the problem that we can Not resurrect oneself or resurrect another. According to Scripture only Jesus has the keys to unlock the grave [resurrect us].- Rev 1v18.

So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin [Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6], all the rest of the dead will be resurrected to either heaven, or right here on a paradisaic earth under Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth.

According to John [3v13] Jesus taught that up to his time No one had ascended to heaven. [That included Abraham and David.- Acts 2v34; Heb. 11vs13,39]
In other words, after Adam, everyone between Genesis and Malachi and who died before Jesus died, will have an earthly resurrection in fulfillment to God's promise to Abraham that all families of earth will be blessed and all nations of earth will be blessed. Blessed with curing or healing for the nations.
-Rev 22v2; Genesis 22vs17,18.

Before the earthly [physical] resurrection there is a first or earlier resurrection for 'some' because they are resurrected to heaven [spirit body] to reign with Christ. Reign as kings and priests over earthly subjects of God's kingdom.
-Revelation 20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10; Psalm 72v8.

Those 'some', or smaller group, are referred to as a 'little flock' [Luke 12v32]
Whereas, the 'other sheep' [John 10v16] are the larger earthly group,
or the humble meek that will inherit the earth. [Psalm 37vs11,29].
This inheritance starts with the living sheep-like ones of Matthew [25vs31,32] who can gain everlasting life on earth at the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth.
Whereas, Jesus' 'brothers' [of verse 40] are part of the 'brothers' of 1st Cor. 15v50, who like the rest of the 'little flock', will reign in heaven with Christ.
 
Last edited:

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
So the punishment of "the wicked" is going back to the ground with life taken away, does this mean all wickeds are equal in crime and punishment?
all sins, no matter what they be, will be punished in the same way according to the scirptures. Death is the punishment for sin no matter what that sin happens to be.
James 1:14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death

notice how there is no distinguishing between the different types of sins being committed? So a murderer, a fornicator, a liar, a thief, a greedy person...they are all the same in Gods eyes, they will all be given the same punishment - death.
But all sins are forgivable according to Jesus:
Mark 3:28 Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit

However, there is one sin which is taken very seriously by God....its called the 'unforgiveable' sin. It is when a person deliberately blasphemes Gods holy spirit:
Mark 3:29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin.”

so of all the sins mankind commits, there is only 1 that God will not forgive...all others are classed as one and the same. Sin is sin no matter what it is.
So is there any concept in your belief that would allow different levels of punishment for different crimes? Or is it simply the wicked are weeded out regardless of the level of their sins and not given anymore life, so that only the "good" enter heaven?

No. Actually the bible tells us that upon a person death, all their sins are instantly forgiven because death is the way we repay our sins to God. Sin is like a debt...and the fee to repay the debt is your life. So at death, you have paid your debt to God
Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin

So once a person has died, there is no need for any further punishment because that persons sins are all gone and the person is no longer a sinner. If they are free of sin, God has no reason to punish them further.

Another question would be "who enters heaven?" is it based on belief? works? or both?

it is not based on any of those things. It is based on a 'choosing'
God chooses individuals to enter heaven to rule as kings and priests with Christ Jesus.

Our belief is that the far majority of mankind...billions of people from all nations... will actually live on earth in an earthly paradise. The scriptures speak over and over of the earth being renewed and mankind living with God in a paradise. Jesus spoke about the paradise to come and he also spoke about a small number who would join him in the heavenly kingdom. So we are quite different to the majority of christians who believe they are all going to heaven... most JW's believe they will be living on the earth forever in paradise.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
There seems to be a contradiction on the issue of Faith vs. Works
Romans 3:28 (Paul)
A man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
James 2:24 (James)
A man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The 'works of the law' did Not mean the 'law in general' but the works under the Mosaic law.
No one [except Jesus] was able to keep the Constitution of the Mosaic law.

The 'works' mentioned by James are: 'spiritual works'.

Jesus gave us examples of spiritual works such as obeying the Golden Rule, his Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus new commandment to love as he loved mentioned at John 13 vs34,35.

Jesus also mentioned 'works' in his story or illustration of a neighborly good Samaritan.
When seeing someone in genuine need widen out in showing love for others.
-Luke 10vs30-37
 

muslim-

Active Member
Peg, thanks again! I hope you dont mind me turning this into a Q&A session lol.

Would it be correct to say that even this unforgivable sin is committed, the punishment is the same.. no more life? If not, then what happens to who commits "unforgivable sin"?

And about faith vs works.. you said that its neither, and that God chooses who enters heaven. So my question is, is there any criteria for this, linked to faith and/or works? (Im sure its not random and unrelated to religious faith or works)

@ a thousand suns, Thank you. I understand that theres different views on it and thats why I asked the question. Im just asking to understand the beliefs of JWs in particular and how they are different from other Christians. Naturally, as a Muslim (alhamdulillah) I dont accept todays Bible as %100 pure/authentic anyway to refer to it for accurate truth. I generally have an interest in the beliefs of different religions and sects, their similarities and differences, what the thoughts are, how they developed, when, why, under what circumstances, and what is the proof they use to support their beliefs.

They have been kind enough to put time and effort in their answers.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Peg, thanks again! I hope you dont mind me turning this into a Q&A session lol.

Would it be correct to say that even this unforgivable sin is committed, the punishment is the same.. no more life? If not, then what happens to who commits "unforgivable sin"?

I dont mind at all, feel free to ask :)

If a person commits the unforgivable sin, they will die the same death like every other sinner, but there is a slight difference. Every other sinner who dies will be brought back to life during the time of Christs 1,000 year kingdom rule....they are resurrected because their sins are forgiven at death, so they will be given a 2nd chance to live by Gods laws and have the opportunity to live forever, but those who have committed the unforgivable sin will not be brought back to life so they have no future hope.

here are some scriptures that show that ALL mankind will be resurrected back to life on earth...those who were good and bad will be brought back to life;
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment

Isaiah 26:19 “Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop [in birth].

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.”


And about faith vs works.. you said that its neither, and that God chooses who enters heaven. So my question is, is there any criteria for this, linked to faith and/or works? (Im sure its not random and unrelated to religious faith or works)

All followers of Christ are required to have faith producing good works...so the fact is that those who are chosen for heaven are chosen from among Christs followers who are all brothers and all equal in Gods eyes. But there are only 144,000 places in heaven for those who will rule with Christ so naturally not all of Christs followers will enter heaven. Its important to know the scriptural reason why some do go to heaven....they are to rule as kings and priests over the people of the earth...logically then, not all of mankind are going to heaven either, some will obviously still be on earth as subjects of the heavenly kingdom

here are some scriptures to back this idea that only a small number go to heaven:
In the vision of the Apostle John, he saw a specific number in heaven with Christ: Revelation 14:1 "And I saw, and, look! the Lamb (Jesus Christ) standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads....who have been bought from the earth.... These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."
When Jesus was on earth, he chose 12 apostles to join him in the heavenly kingdom... and he called his apostles a 'little flock'. But he told them that he also had 'other sheep' who were not 'of this fold' meaning they were a different group to that of the apostles. Jesus said at John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd

The scriptures always stated that people from all the nations would be blessed by Abrahams 'seed'... the seed was the promised Messiah... and he was for all the nations, not only the Jews:
Genesis 22:18 And by means of your seed (Jesus Christ is the seed of Abraham) all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice

Psalm 72:8 And he will have subjects from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth

Zechariah 9:10 And I shall certainly cut off [the] war chariot from E′phra‧im and [the] horse from Jerusalem. And the battle bow must be cut off. And he will actually speak peace to the nations; and his rulership will be from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of [the] earth


So we understand that the kingdom of God is a kingdom for all the nations...all mankind will benefit from it. By means of the kingdom and its rulers, God will teach mankind how to live in harmony with his laws and when they learn to do so, they will have everlasting life as their reward. Mankind will finally be reunited with God and it is all made possible by means of the heavenly kingdom with Christ Jesus as its king and the 144,000 co-rulers who will instruct and guide mankind back to perfection. This is the message of the holy bible and its the 'good news of the kingdom' that we preach. :)
 
Last edited:

espo35

Active Member
If Jesus assumed his role as king in heaven in 1914(?), what tangible diffrence does this make to mankind?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
If Jesus assumed his role as king in heaven in 1914(?), what tangible diffrence does this make to mankind?

it means we have entered the final phase and are nearing the time of Armageddon.

When Jesus kingdom began ruling in 1914, a war broke out in heaven between Satan and his demons and Jesus and his angels.
Satan was hurled to the earth with a 'short period of time' before he is completely destroyed.

Revelation 12: 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.

It also marked the beginning of the period known as the 'last days'

This is the time that all the prophets foretold would come...we are living in exciting times and its going to be amazing to experience Gods final war against the nations and see him usher in a new way of living on earth without human rulership. :)
 

Jethro

Member
Isn't it interesting that all neo-Christian religions hold to unbiblical doctrines, and prove their such doctrines with no exegetical accuracy at all.
 
Top